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hyphen
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Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by hyphen » Aug 14, 2019 10:44 pm

Hello,

Your documentation said that for a Simple Deployment scenario we could install Hyper-V on the host but I see that 2 days ago it was updated and now that info has been removed and the new info says it is NOT recommended to install on the host but rather on a VM on the host.

I'm setting up a new server and had the whole thing planned but this new info changes things.

Can you please let me know why the recommendations changed? Also, if we install on a VM, can we install on a VM that is also being backed up or does it have to be a separate VM? Does the VM have to run Windows?

Thank you!

Shestakov
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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by Shestakov » Aug 15, 2019 9:06 am 1 person likes this post

Hello,

Could you specify what piece of documentation has been changed?
Technically it's possible install VBR server on Hyper-V host, but indeed it's recommended to deploy it on VM.
Also, if we install on a VM, can we install on a VM that is also being backed up or does it have to be a separate VM?
Yes, it can be backed up. You may also schedule configuration backups.
Does the VM have to run Windows?
Yes

Thanks

hyphen
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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by hyphen » Aug 15, 2019 4:58 pm

Here is the link to the documentation that changed recently. That red warning was not there a few days ago:

https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... l?ver=95u4

Thanks for the clarification. I'm implementing Veeam B&R for a SBS client who doesn't have access to any extra computers so I thought of installing the backup server on the host. I guess rather than installing in on a VM that is being backed up it would be a bit better to install it to one of their workstations, even if it is domain joined. I will create backups of the configuration and if the domain goes down I can reinstall the backup server on another computer, transfer the backup files and start restoring stuff.

Is Veeam supported on Home editions of Windows 10? I could probably get them to use an old computer and upgrade it from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by Shestakov » Aug 16, 2019 9:45 am

According to the document revision history the section was not updated.
Is Veeam supported on Home editions of Windows 10?

Yes

hyphen
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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by hyphen » Aug 16, 2019 3:15 pm

That’s strange. If you look at the bottom right of the page I linked it says updated on 8/12/2019.

Regardless, I think I know have all the info, pros and cons and will just have to decide what works for our environment. I appreciate all the help.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by Shestakov » Aug 16, 2019 3:20 pm

Hmm, you are right. Probably some issue with such a configuration was researched and recommendation was changed.
Also glad all questions are resolved.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by Nick-SAC » Aug 19, 2019 2:47 pm

Can we get further clarification on exactly why this has been changed, e.g., is it Performance, Stability, Recovery issues?

We have several deployments configured as:
1 Physical Server running Windows Server (2012R2 or 2016) Hyper-V Host (non-Domain-Joined for Backups Security considerations)
2-3 VMs on each (DC , Exchange , SQL) running Windows Server (2008R2 or 2012R2)
VB&R All-In-One install (including the Virtual Lab) on the Hyper-V Host

All of which are running flawlessly and with a fair amount of Recovery testing as well.

And we are literally in the midst of the process of deploying the same setup on a new Windows 2019 Server.

So, if this is just a Best-Practice for Performance issue, that’s not a factor in our experience with these lightly loaded systems (all operating in 8/5 environments where the backups are occurring overnight).

And I’d really rather not have to tell our client that we now need to add another system (and maybe spindles) for an already quoted job — not to mention having to maintain another mission critical Win10 OS with its associated what’s-it-gonna-break-this-month updates.

Thanks

Shestakov
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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by Shestakov » Aug 22, 2019 1:57 pm

I'll double-check with R&D and write back once details are clear.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by foggy » Aug 22, 2019 4:07 pm

Hi Nick, you can find the explanation in this thread. Thanks!

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by tomnewman » Aug 24, 2019 4:09 pm

I've read the linked posts back to the original MS document that Veeam's advice is based on.

I don't see anything there that would want to make me tear up existing installations that are working fine. This seems to be a best practice issue rather than an issue of specifically breaking something.

I came from a tape backup background and when I started using B&R didn't even realise it could be installed anywhere rather than the host. We have half a dozen small 8/5 installations where B&R is installed on the host backing up overnight and they work flawlessly. Now we know better, we install on to a seperate VM but see no justification to revise existing, working, installations.

I'm old enough to predate MS Hyper-V by many years. I can remember when MS were happy to sell complete SBS solutions where you put EVERYTHING on a single server and it worked pretty well.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by soncscy » Aug 25, 2019 2:06 pm 1 person likes this post

@Tom,

I get what you're saying, but there is definitely another side to the story here. In our shop, the SBS approach was an unmitigated disaster in every single respect, with our MS rep selling us promises of a hyper-converged infra years before HyperV was ready for this. Neverminding how bad of an idea HCI is in practice (talk about putting all your eggs in one basket), if you have even a moderately active server to host on your HCI, the impact becomes quite apparent. In my experience, it's not a matter of "have I experienced issues because of SBS/HCI" but "when will I experience issues because of SBS/HCI?"

Admittedly, I come from a *Nix background, and I prefer my apps to do one thing and one thing well. I won't deny the simplicity of the SBS style configurations from MS, but I see it like homemade fruit-fly traps -- it's just a trick to you stuck in the bottle.

I'd never put anything on the parent partition with HyperV; the reactions we got from MS support regarding this was enough to convince us that even if it is technically supported, MS support won't lift a finger until you clean up the parent partition.

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Re: Simple Deployment Scenatio - Installing on the host

Post by tomnewman » Aug 26, 2019 9:49 pm 1 person likes this post

I'm not advocating HCI - just trying to keep some perspective for those who haven't followed best practice with existing installations.
MS support won't lift a finger until you clean up the parent partition
....reformated, reinstallall, replaced all the hardware, reinstalled again, do it all again blindfolded with your arms tied behind your back...

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