Loss of logging functionality after moving to central mgmt

[brf]

Hi, I've noticed that after moving from the classic style agent management to the new "central management" of VBR 9.5 Update 3, there is a loss of logging functionality for agents, at least with "Workstation" agent licenses which is the only type of licenses I have.

Prior to switching to central management, I'd get immediate email notification when any agent job succeeded, failed, etc.

After switching to central management, now I get a huge batch of emails (one for every agent plus one for the protection group rescan) at 8AM every day telling me what transpired the previous day. Getting notifications of what your agents are up to in realtime is now impossible apparently, but even more bizarrely, the 8AM time I referred to is apparently hardcoded and not even a setting...or so I'm told in my support case about this (#02438964).

I'm considering reverting to the old agent style just to get this functionality back, which is unfortunate since it's nice to be able to control the settings centrally.

Also worth noting: this applies to both Windows and Linux agents, not just Windows, but I had to pick one forum to post in...

[brf]

Even worse, it seems these new emails don't even mention whether that particular agent succeeded, failed, was cancelled, etc in the subject line. So you're now forced to actually read the emails from every single agent just to verify everything's working fine...

[Dima P.]

Hello brf,

there is a loss of logging functionality for agents, at least with "Workstation" agent licenses which is the only type of licenses I have.

Yes, this is how managed by agent job (we call it policy based approach) works. With policy constant connection to Veeam B&R is not required, so stats are updated periodically by rescan jobs.

now I get a huge batch of emails (one for every agent plus one for the protection group rescan) at 8AM every day telling me what transpired the previous day.

Email report is cumulative for every policy and is generated on a daily basis. If you have one policy per host you get a daily email report for every policy. I’d recommend to keep multiple hosts in one policy instead, as its much more manageable and easy to use.

I'm considering reverting to the old agent style just to get this functionality back, which is unfortunate since it's nice to be able to control the settings centrally.

Have you tried managed by backup server job? It allows you to control backup jobs manually and update starts in real time (since backup job is constantly controlled by backup server)

I had to pick one forum to post in...

Merged your post to Veeam B&R sub forum related to agent management functionality.

[brf]

Email report is cumulative for every policy and is generated on a daily basis. If you have one policy per host you get a daily email report for every policy. I’d recommend to keep multiple hosts in one policy instead, as its much more manageable and easy to use.

By policy, you mean backup policy correct? What I found is that if I put multiple systems in the same backup policy, then those systems got backed up sequentially, only one at a time, which isn't acceptable. Am I missing something there? I need all systems backed up in parallel.

I don't so much mind separate emails for separate systems anyway. My primary complaint here is that by moving to central management, we've reverted from live notifications to daily notifications. So if a backup fails, I don't know that I need to fix anything for up to 24 hours. That's a big loss of functionality really.

Have you tried managed by backup server job?

I tried, but whenever I setup a job that way, it failed based on licensing. All our agent licenses are "Workstation". My assumption was that I cannot use that mode without "Server" agent licenses. Is that wrong?

By the way, my 2nd post in this thread (about success/failure not being mentioned in the subject line on the policy emails) is wrong, after glancing through my daily emails today, the success/failure status actually does seem to be in the subject line. No idea what I was looking at when I wrote that, sorry.

[Dima P.]

By policy, you mean backup policy correct?

Yup (managed by agent radio button when you create an agent job).

Am I missing something there? I need all systems backed up in parallel.

For hosts assigned to the policy backup job is controlled locally by agent (you specify the backup schedule in Veeam B&R job settings and then these settings are distributed across all assigned hosts).

I tried, but whenever I setup a job that way, it failed based on licensing. All our agent licenses are "Workstation". My assumption was that I cannot use that mode without "Server" agent licenses. Is that wrong?

Correct. Managed by backup server job is designed to protect servers (and failover clusters) with direct connection to backup server. In this case job is completely controlled by Veeam B&R, so you can start/stop it via Veeam B&R console, email reports are generated instantly etc.

[brf]

For hosts assigned to the policy backup job is controlled locally by agent (you specify the backup schedule in Veeam B&R job settings and then these settings are distributed across all assigned hosts).

Oh, yeah, you're right. Pretty sure I saw the sequential backups somehow though when I had multiple systems inside the same backup policy. Maybe I tried server managed at some point and they all failed sequentially due to licensing? So I figured backups would be sequential too? I don't remember at this point. It's kind of besides the point anyway, as I don't really mind the multiple emails (one for each agent).

Correct. Managed by backup server job is designed to protect servers (and failover clusters) with direct connection to backup server. In this case job is completely controlled by Veeam B&R, so you can start/stop it via Veeam B&R console, email reports are generated instantly etc.

Right, that's what I thought. So there's additional incentive now to pay triple for the Server licenses instead of Workstation.

But anyway, we're just back to the original issue. Using "Workstation" agent licenses, when you switch to the new centrally-managed scheme, you lose realtime email notifications. It's a loss of functionality for sure. Not only that, but all your email notifications always come in at 8AM and as far as I've been informed, that's hardcoded with no way to change it.

(Also, I just noticed that I referred to the email notifications as "logging" in the subject line...maybe misleading, sorry, but back when I still had realtime email notifications, I kind of thought of those as my "log" of the backups...)

[jmmarton]

Not only that, but all your email notifications always come in at 8AM and as far as I've been informed, that's hardcoded with no way to change it.

What time is your rescan scheduled for in your protection group?

Joe

[brf]

10PM.

[Gostev]

It's kind of besides the point anyway, as I don't really mind the multiple emails (one for each agent).

May be we can have this as an option down the road... but without having time to implement these options, the thinking was that receiving hundreds of emails every day (for people with hundreds of workstations) is more "damaging" than people with a few workstations receiving a single email per day (instead of one per agent).

[brf]

Well, as mentioned, I'm actually getting separate emails for each agent right now, it's just that they all arrive at the exact same time, rather than in realtime. So, worst of both worlds.

[Dima P.]

What I found is that if I put multiple systems in the same backup policy, then those systems got backed up sequentially, only one at a time, which isn't acceptable. Am I missing something there? I need all systems backed up in parallel.

Are you backing up to a Veeam B&R repository? If yes, please check the limit maximum concurrent tasks value. One agent backup job takes single task slot from repository.

I tried, but whenever I setup a job that way, it failed based on licensing. All our agent licenses are "Workstation". My assumption was that I cannot use that mode without "Server" agent licenses. Is that wrong?

Yes, managed by backup server job (as well as failover cluster job) requires server license.

I'm actually getting separate emails for each agent right now, it's just that they all arrive at the exact same time, rather than in realtime

I am lost. If it’s a single policy for your hosts – you should receive a single email report for all the agents assign to this policy. Are you saying that you get both cumulative policy report and another report generated on backup job completion? Thank you in advance.

[brf]

I am lost. If it’s a single policy for your hosts – you should receive a single email report for all the agents assign to this policy. Are you saying that you get both cumulative policy report and another report generated on backup job completion? Thank you in advance.

No, that's not what I meant...

My understanding of Gostev's reply is that he was saying:
(1) The reason they decided to collect all the backup emails and send them all in a single batch at 8AM is to avoid spamming you with backup status for a bunch of different workstations, and
(2) Losing realtime emails was a necessary sacrifice for that to happen.

So with my current configuration, I still get individual emails for each workstation (which I'm frankly fine with), but I lost realtime email notifications. So, it's the worst of both worlds, at least in the context of what he was describing - I still get separate emails (could be considered spammy by some), yet realtime emails are still sacrificed for nothing.

[DaStivi]

Not only that, but all your email notifications always come in at 8AM and as far as I've been informed, that's hardcoded with no way to change it.

i can confirm this... got a couple of protection groups now... and according backup policies... very funny at 8am in the morning, got waked by 10 emails...

[dasfliege]

Same missunderstanding of the agent licences here...
The Veeam Agent Edition overview actually states that Workstation and Server Licenses are equal in terms of centralized management, which is not true!
Based on this table, the only differences between Workstation and Server licences are CBT, Application aware and some scheduling stuff. But you will not find out that you do not have the same centralized management functionality for workstations, as long as you haven't already bought your licences and start setting up the jobs. This is not Okay @Veeam!

[brf]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. For the agent licenses, the Workstation vs Server edition comparison table most definitely needs a new row added mentioning the difference in central management capabilities as of VBR Update 3.

[jlawler]

Same missunderstanding of the agent licences here...
The Veeam Agent Edition overview actually states that Workstation and Server Licenses are equal in terms of centralized management, which is not true!
Based on this table, the only differences between Workstation and Server licences are CBT, Application aware and some scheduling stuff. But you will not find out that you do not have the same centralized management functionality for workstations, as long as you haven't already bought your licences and start setting up the jobs. This is not Okay @Veeam!

I just spent $7,200 in licenses because I wanted the ability to control my workstation backups from my server and I find out I can't. I paid money to be able to push out a configured agent which I already had the ability to do with other tools I have. I am going to have a talk next week with my rep over this and I doubt I will be renewing anything after my workstation agent subscription expires in a year and my ESXi core license support is up for renewal. NOT happy!

[Dima P.]

Hello jlawler,

I wanted the ability to control my workstation backups from my server and I find out I can't

Can you please elaborate? With Update 3 you have two options: managed by backup server job and managed by agent job. Managed by backup server job (for servers and failover clusters) can be controlled via Veeam B&R in real time. Managed by agent job can distribute agent configuration across all assigned hosts.

[jlawler]

Being able to push out a config to the workstations and then not be able to control them like you can when they are managed by the server is NOT what I just dropped over $6,000 on for workstation agent licenses for. There is NOTHING in the version comparison chart that showed me that this was not possible. I can't even remotely stop a workstation backup job that is "stuck" and has been running for too long unless I access the workstation with TeamViewer or physically go to where it is located. The editions comparison chart located at https://www.veeam.com/veeam_agent_windo ... son_ds.pdf also does not lead anyone to believe that the "remote administration" features of the paid workstation agent is as neutered as it is.

Here are the features that the comparison chart shows as being different:
1. Workstation does not have application aware processing.
2. Workstation does not have file indexing and search
3. Workstation does not have transaction log backup capabilities for use with SQL.
4. Workstation does not have changed block tracking capabilities.
5. Workstation does not have restore points for application data.
6. Workstation does not have continuous, daily, weekly, and monthly scheduling capabilities in the same manner as the server edition.
7. Workstation does not have an adjustable backup window.

NONE of those differences listed reflects even close to the differences that exist in the ability to manage the licensed workstation agents. I have used Veeam since 2012 to backup my ESXi hosts and I have used the free workstation agent on a small scale for a handful of computers since it came out which is why I made the leap to purchase workstation agents and deploy them to protect all of my endpoints. I completely understand not having application aware processing, indexing, CBT, etc in the workstation agent along with the things I listed above however the lack of control from the console that is missing isn't acceptable and it is very misleading in the edition comparison chart. I placed the trust and confidence that I developed over the 6 years of using Veeam with my ESXi hosts in my workstation agent purchase. I am very disappointed that I just spent over $7K to renew my ESXi core license support and purchase workstation agents and then discover that I really didn't gain much over what I was already doing with my B&R repositories and the free workstation agent. The thing that I'm most upset at myself for is that I didn't even need to renew the support on my core licenses. My company has deployed Comvault as the official ESXi backup solution but I wanted to keep my core licenses under support for the next year and continue to use it as a secondary backup since I was deploying licensed workstation agents. If you look through the posts in the forums you will see that I am not the only person who feels that the pre purchase information that Veeam gives about the management features of the licensed workstation agent is VERY misleading. Feel free to have someone reach out and contact me offline about this issue because I would love to discuss this with someone. In fact my office is less than 2 miles from the Veeam office in Columbus, Ohio and I drive past it on the way to work. The management features that are missing should be added to the licensed workstation agents ASAP.

[jlawler]

Another thing that I have noticed is that when deploying the workstation agent from the server there is no place in the backup configuration to configure the backup cache. When I go to the deployed agent it says "This application is managed by your system administrator" and it will let me click on Configure backup and view the current configuration. One of the settings is "Backup Cache" but since it's managed by the policy that was pushed from the server you can't configure it locally. What this means is there is no place on the server when you are setting up the policy and it's not accessible on the agent so the feature is essentially unavailable even though in the editions comparison "Backup cache" is clearly supposed to be available in the Workstation and Server agent licenses.

[Dima P.]

Hello John,

Thank you for detailed explanation - it helps a lot!

There is NOTHING in the version comparison chart that showed me that this was not possible.

Thank you for sharing this. I’ll ask the team responsible for this chart to reflect the difference between job based approach (managed by backup server jobs) and policy based approach (managed by agent jobs).

The management features that are missing should be added to the licensed workstation agents

Can you please elaborate on how you would like these agents installed on workstations to be controlled by backup server (are you talking about servers that you would like to protect with workstation license or desktops& laptops)?

The problem with workstations is that desktop can be turned off or hibernated by the time when managed by backup server job kicks in and, as a result, managed by backup server backup job will fail. This problem can be solved by job initiated by agent on the client side.

Similar situation with roaming devices like laptops which are not connected to your corporate network all the time. However, if you configure managed by agent backup job with backup event ‘When backup storage is connected’ such laptop will initiate backup immediately when its connected to your Veeam B&R repository

feature is essentially unavailable even though in the editions comparison "Backup cache" is clearly supposed to be available in the Workstation and Server agent licenses.

Completely agree with you. We plan to add Backup Cache functionality to managed by agent jobs in upcoming versions.

pre purchase information that Veeam gives about the management features of the licensed workstation agent is VERY misleading. Feel free to have someone reach out and contact me offline about this issue because I would love to discuss this with someone.

Please reach your local sales representative. I am sure he will be able to resolve all license issues.