architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for tape

Everything about backing up to tape

Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:08 pm

None of both.
He's running once a (working) day, in the evening per time schedule.
In the case I described in my post today 10.49pm, we just were starting the tape job IN the day, so in the same time, when there were incremental jobs running at the tape-linked backup-to-repository job.
In the case I described in my post today 11.19pm a tape job was running by manual already in the afternoon and finished. Then to try out things I was starting in the evening again the incremental job by manual, let him finish (took him 10 minutes), and then started by manual the corresponding tape job.
Normally, he should find new vbi file(s) and synthesize completely a new vbk file and write this to tape.
In this weird case, he JUST was backing up the vbi file to tape, and wrote in this job:
26.11.2014 23:05:28 :: Processing full backup of ....SERVERS-BACKUP: nothing to backup
26.11.2014 23:05:28 :: Processing incremental backup of ....SERVERS-BACKUP
26.11.2014 23:12:16 :: 0 directories and 1 files backed up successfully
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:53 pm

Synthesized backup is created once per day. So, it seems that in your case it had been created on that day already, and therefore the subsequent run copied only incremental files. Thanks.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:39 pm

Wolfgang,

You setup looks correct - we had a discussion with QA team and they asked you to open a support case, please, let support team know that QA is interested in your issue and post the case ID to this thread.

Right now it looks like bug: if the synthesized full was already but then a new increment appears tape job would be triggered to create another synthesized full. The workaround for now is to adjust backup to disk / backup to tape schedule so backup to tape would start only after the last backup to disk incremental run.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:17 am

Hi d.popov and v.Eremin!

The case# under which THIS problem is reported to support is: Case # 00680258

Hmm, I was checking the logs now again.
So we still have the "process incremental files" checkbox checked in the tape job!
Now I can guarantee, that the tape jobs were started JUST once a day (with the appropiate days checked in the schedule box above "process incremental files"), and definitly started after the corresponding incremental job (which runs 3-4 times over the day) finished for this day making incremental backups.

Result in two different jobs, with the same settings in one environment:
Job-no 1:
It seems now, he writes one vbk-file, with the timestamp of the last incremental backup in this day, BUT ALSO writes ALL the corresponding vib-files from this day to tape!
And we thought, with this setting (process incremental files) he is just supposed to write one synthesized vbk-file (on these days selected in the schedule box above the "process incremental files" setting)?!

(please don't wonder in the first screenshot is the 27th and not 28th in the tape files properties, the tape job for 28th I paused to start until I made this screenshots for you, for testing purposes, with all this problems....


And as a poster before mentioned already too: when the box "process incremental files" is checked, he backups more files to tape than just ONE synthesized vbk, with all incremental of this day..., at least all the vib files too, and as we can see in job-no2, a little bit more....[/b]
Image

So, what I tried out (because he didn't processed the files of 28th because of pausing the job, until now), I took away the "process incremental files" checkbox in the tape job STOR-SERVER, but left ALL days in the schedule box above checked, made again by manual a incremental backup (with date 29th - Saturday) with the result, as soon the incremental job ended and I started the tape job (manual), that he tells "no new files to backup per job setting" again.
So
27th the last vbk-file was written in the evening on tape, (even with all the vib-files, which should not be), but "process incremental files" checked
28th he was makeing incremental jobs too, as you can see in the screenshots, but I paused the tape job, which was just not running on the 28th
On 29th we made him a manual incremental backup by hand (becaus schedule just makes Mo-Fr), and when I took away the "process incremental files" job, he says "nothing to backup", when I start the tape job by manual, after the incremental finished.
Image
Image
Image

Job-no 2:
There he is makeing something very weird. He writes everything like in Job-no 1, but ALSO produces another synthesized vbk-file (2014-11-21....vbk), with the OLDEST incremental file available (I was checking the job, it's not an old vbk he left on tape because he has enough space, NO, he was creating/synthesizing it, in the job, running on 28th!!...
There "process incremental files" was also checked!
Image

The case# under which THIS problem is reported to support is: Case # 00680258
(Please don't wonder: The case was openend in the beginning because of a read error from USB disk, but this is solved already with http://www.veeam.com/kb1887, but we continued haveing problems with the vbk-synthesizing, so this problem is now the actual one in this case!)
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:59 am

RESULT FOR US
Leaving the "process incremental files" box unchecked, leads NOT to get synthesized vbk-files in 3 jobs (2 environments), EXCEPT in the meantime by HDD repository retention policy, he was migrating a vib into the vbk file on the HDD, because the number of allowed vib came to the end, then he recognizes a new vbk file, he backs up then. By the way, leave this checkbox unchecked to be the right method, is still the opinion from your co-worker, which supports us in this case ID!! So against your opinon
Checking the "process incremental files" box, leads to, that he makes syntesized VBK files, even with the right date, but also writes all the VIB files from this day to tape, and in the job-no 2 case, he writes an additional syntesized VBKfile (with the oldest VIB date).
At a second customer (case # 00689913), the "process incremental files" box checked (the same like here), leads that he never stops producing many syntesized vbk-files on tape, so the tape job never stops, even the job starts to run in the evening, when all incremental stopped running.
This seems to be a little bit the behaviour like in this screenshots job-no 2 here, but in this case we have a tape library and not a singular drive (maybe as long he has enough tapes with space online in the media set, he really produces syntesized vbk files, with each of the existing vib files?!?!)

Anyhow, your workaround of waiting to start the tape job (with process incremental checked) until the incremental jobs finished, works for the customer of case # 00680258 which has singular tape drives, even he writes the corresponding vib-files of the day too, and if he has still space on the tape, another vbk file with another vib state synthesized, which should not be the right behaviour, right?
But this workaround doesn't work for the second customer, where he sees a tape library, there he writes vbk files with syntesized vbi states, as long he has writeable tapes available (we never were waiting longer than 35 hours, what would happen, if he runs out of tapes, but maybe he will finish the job "happy)..
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby florian.meier » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:20 pm

Hi

Im now a littlebit confused.

If i have a normal incremental veeam backup copy job, from which i save the data to tape i have to do this:

Uncheck the Box "Process incremental backup files" and veeam should always create a Virtual Synthesized Full Backup to tape.
So that means, only one full bkp file gets written to tape, no incremental files!

But this works also, if on my backup copy target is a chain with a full backup one week ago and some incremental files on it.
The tape job capture all the files (full and incrementals) and write one big full to tape, right?

Please correct me if I understand something wrong.

Regards.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:07 am

wbauer84 wrote:It seems now, he writes one vbk-file, with the timestamp of the last incremental backup in this day, BUT ALSO writes ALL the corresponding vib-files from this day to tape!
And we thought, with this setting (process incremental files) he is just supposed to write one synthesized vbk-file (on these days selected in the schedule box above the "process incremental files" setting)?!

Yes, it's supposed. However, currently there are problems with how synthesized full is generated in cases when multiple increments are created daily. As mentioned above, QA team is aware of this issue and working on addressing it.

florian.meier wrote:Uncheck the Box "Process incremental backup files" and veeam should always create a Virtual Synthesized Full Backup to tape.

In order for synthesized full to be created, process incremental backup files option should be enabled.

Thanks.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:25 pm

Hi v.Eremin,

Well, the problems with creating synthesized full backup we experienced also before, when we had just ONE incremental backup a day, it was the same behaviour, but in the meantime we switched already to more than one incremental a day, so we cannot proof it anymore...

So for synthesized full to be done (even there are problems now), the "process incremental backup files" has to be ENABLED now (all the time you're saying NO)?

Is there are time range we can expect the hotfix, because this bug doesn't allow us to make full backups every day, without backing up every day full from source (which was the reason we bought Veeam, because it's one of his main features)?
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:58 am

So for synthesized full to be done (even there are problems now), the "process incremental backup files" has to be ENABLED now (all the time you're saying NO)?

This requirement is by design. The synthesized logic will be applied only when the said option is enabled.

Is there are time range we can expect the hotfix, because this bug doesn't allow us to make full backups every day, without backing up every day full from source (which was the reason we bought Veeam, because it's one of his main features)?

The fix for this issue won't make it into the first patch. However, I've asked QA team to take a look at the mentioned cases. So, we'll create a private fix and you should be provided with it, as soon as it's implemented.

Thanks.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:21 pm

wbauer84 wrote:Case # 00680258

QA team's made internal requirement regarding that problem and confirmed that the private fix should provided to you, once it's ready. Thanks.
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[MERGED] new Daily Full 2 Tape Feature...

Veeam Logoby PariPari » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:43 am

Hey,

I have some questions about the to tape functions in V8
Currently we are backing up with Incremental forever, with a synthetic full on thursdays. We would like veeam to export a daily full to tape.
The Export Job is configured with a media pool for fulls (process incr is not checked). But i dont get how to configure the schedule next to that option so the to tape job will do a synthetic full for tape export... can someone please clarify this?
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:06 am

I'm adressing nearly the same behaviour in case #00685887 but I'm getting answers there very very slowly.... :(

Source backup job creates forward incremental files once a day in the evening and creates active full backups weekly on mondays.
The backup to tape job runs in the morning on the next day (to be able to change tapes, if capacity of one tape is exceeded) with schedule for full backups set to every day (thought this will create a full backup on tape every day) and also checked "process incremental backup files".

It seems that the schedule for creating full backups on tape is ignored, because it only writes .vib files to tape:
Folder with source backup files contains a .vbk from 12/03 and .vib files from there on once a day

The tape job from 12/04 wrote the .vbk from 12/03 created at 12:00 and one .vib created the same day at 19:00.
Tape job from 12/05 wrote only a .vib file from the day before and this morning there have been written the three .vib files created between friday and sunday.

But no full backup has been created...!

This is very importand for us because we have no correct backup on tape, too :!:
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Re: new Daily Full 2 Tape Feature...

Veeam Logoby foggy » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:25 pm

PariPari wrote:The Export Job is configured with a media pool for fulls (process incr is not checked). But i dont get how to configure the schedule next to that option so the to tape job will do a synthetic full for tape export... can someone please clarify this?

Basically, you need to specify the day you want synthesized backup to be created on and enable processing of incremental files. However there are currently issues related to synthesized full backup creation, please review the thread above for details.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby PariPari » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:51 pm

Alright thanks. I checked 'process incremental backup files' now and can see the same behaviour as mentioned already in this topic. According to the job log only vibs will be copied to tape.
"Processing full backup for Job xy: nothing to backup"
Its a pretty new installation, so we will tell the customer to wait for a fix.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby foggy » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:53 pm 1 person likes this post

If you open a case with our technical support, you will be promptly notified on its availability.
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