Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby vmff » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:41 pm

conradblack wrote:I've tested all this and it works exactly as you described.

I'm very much appreciate the help :) I believe that is all for now... Unless there's something additional that I realize down the road =P


The part they're not telling you, and the part you'll be back with down the road when you realize it, is that this method cannot handle also using the active full feature (or any function that creates a second .vbk in the reverse incremental chain) without also causing the tape job to try and put all of those .vbk's onto a single tape, each time the backup to tape job runs.

They say this is working as designed, but that they just haven't designed a way to put the most recent .vbk to tape automatically yet. So, we're left to manually copying out the .vbk to tape job as a file selection backup (yes, we have to do this in production each morning whenever multiple .vbk's show up in the chain) until the other .vbk's clear the chain or trying to get some unsupported scripting methods to work (no luck here yet). It is most painful, and with all the interest in putting the most recent .vbk to tape, very surprising that there is not a means to do it programmatically.

And what's also painful, is that this issue is being bragged about in the weekly digest as working well! Search the tape forum, it is riddled with this issue...
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:43 am 1 person likes this post

The part they're not telling you, and the part you'll be back with down the road when you realize it, is that this method cannot handle also using the active full feature (or any function that creates a second .vbk in the reverse incremental chain) without also causing the tape job to try and put all of those .vbk's onto a single tape, each time the backup to tape job runs.

With the described approach (forward forever incremental chain, periodic full backup conducted either manually or through PS script and virtual full backup) only one full backup should be created on tapes after initial job cycle. Thanks.
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby conradblack » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:09 pm

I have another inquiry...

I'm curious about media sets and how they fit into this. I'm going to be doing GFS rotation, so one week I'll be using a set of 4 tapes for dailies during the week, then a "weekly" set that I'll send off on every Friday, except the last Friday of the month which will be a monthly.

For the dailies, I will be using 2 sets of 4 tapes. I will be using each set every other week. Let's call these sets "Daily A" and "Daily B". If I fill up my tapes Monday-Thursday during the week using the Daily A's, then use the Daily B's the next week, and switch back to the Daily A's during the third week, what will happen when I run my tape job? I will be marking these tapes as free. Will it try to copy every single VBK in the chain to tape, or only the latest? How do I ensure it only will copy the latest VBK?

I'm not really understanding the concept of media sets, and how they fit into this... If I'm using the same tapes every other week and my retention policy on disk backups is for a month's worth of restore points, then how will this work?
Thanks
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby conradblack » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:00 pm

v.Eremin wrote:
The part they're not telling you, and the part you'll be back with down the road when you realize it, is that this method cannot handle also using the active full feature (or any function that creates a second .vbk in the reverse incremental chain) without also causing the tape job to try and put all of those .vbk's onto a single tape, each time the backup to tape job runs.

With the described approach (forward forever incremental chain, periodic full backup conducted either manually or through PS script and virtual full backup) only one full backup should be created on tapes after initial job cycle. Thanks.


Hmm, I'm a bit confused and I need some help and clarification.

I've realized my disk backup jobs need to have the same retention policy as my tape backups. What I want is to have one job, with 56 restore points, and copy a synthesized vbk to tape every day. The problem is, I'm going to be rotating the same set of tapes mon-thurs.

When I erase the previous Monday's tape on the following Monday, it copies any vbk's that were on this tape from the previous Monday. So if I run a tape job on Monday after erasing it, it will copy last Monday's vbk and this Monday's, which is not what I want.

I want only the latest one, but the tape job forces me to copy all vbk's to tape that are uncopied.

I really need to figure something out for this! I don't want to have to make a "daily" job that only has 4 restore points.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:38 pm

Actually, it's recommended to have longer retention on tapes than on disk. So, it seems that you need to either lower retention on disk on increase retention on tapes (so that, files that are still present on disks aren't erased from mediums). Thanks,
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby conradblack » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:10 pm

v.Eremin wrote:Actually, it's recommended to have longer retention on tapes than on disk. So, it seems that you need to either lower retention on disk on increase retention on tapes (so that, files that are still present on disks aren't erased from mediums). Thanks,


Okay thank you, this makes sense now. I need to adjust my retention policy accordingly.

Now I'm running into issues with running the active full on Friday. I have a test scenario retention policy of 14 restore points for 1 week. In this scenario I'm going to run jobs twice a day.

Let's say I run my job for the first time on Monday. It will create a full backup file after the first run, and then on the second run it will create an increment. That night I will make a virtual synthetic full to tape (although in actuality on the first run it will only copy the first vbk that was created)

Tuesday, I will create two more vibs, and run a virtual synthetic to tape once more. This will continue until Friday. On Friday, I will run a manual active full, and then run the job once more and create another vib. I will copy the active full to tape on Friday.

On Saturday and Sunday, I will run my job two times, creating two more vibs on these days. This will create 14 restore points by Friday. I was hoping that when I run the job on the next Monday, that the first increment chain will have one vib removed from it, and the increment chain will move forward.

I was hoping this would allow me to use last weeks tapes, but the initial increment chain does not get trimmed. I'm testing it as we speak, and it's seeming that the initial increment chain won't be truncated until there's enough restore points in the new chain to match my 14 restore point retention policy.

Basically I want to use the active full feature on Friday and I want my previous increment chain to be truncated according to the retention policy. This is not how it's working according to my testing right now.

Any input would be appreciated :)
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:43 pm

Your reasoning is correct except one thing: once you create Active Full, new chain is being started. So by Sunday you will have 2 chains: Full(1st Monday)+9increments(Mon-Thu) and Full(Friday)+ 5increments(Fri-Sun). When you run the job on the next Monday, the increment will go to the 2nd chain; but, the restore points of the first chains will not be deleted, until you have 14 restore points in the 2nd chain.

Could you specify the reason of running the Active Full manually on Friday? Thanks!
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby conradblack » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:56 pm

Shestakov wrote:Your reasoning is correct except one thing: once you create Active Full, new chain is being started. So by Sunday you will have 2 chains: Full(1st Monday)+9increments(Mon-Thu) and Full(Friday)+ 5increments(Fri-Sun). When you run the job on the next Monday, the increment will go to the 2nd chain; but, the restore points of the first chains will not be deleted, until you have 14 restore points in the 2nd chain.

Could you specify the reason of running the Active Full manually on Friday? Thanks!


I was under the impression that this would be the best way to ensure I have a consistent backup (I've read it's recommended to run an active full every 1-3 months) and we talked about using it in this thread. I'd like to avoid using SureBackup right now.. I just want to ensure I have proper backups.
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm 1 person likes this post

You are correct, running Active Fulls once in a while is a part of best practice for cases when no Recovery verification techniques such as Surebackup are used.
Just keep in mind that due you active fulls you will have more restore points in your repository when making those active fulls.
Nevertheless your backup infrastructure will work without issues. Thanks!
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby conradblack » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:56 pm

Shestakov wrote:You are correct, running Active Fulls once in a while is a part of best practice for cases when no Recovery verification techniques such as Surebackup are used.
Just keep in mind that due you active fulls you will have more restore points in your repository when making those active fulls.
Nevertheless your backup infrastructure will work without issues. Thanks!


Now I need to decide whether or not I want to wrestle with active fulls, or use SureBackup.

Thank you for the help :)
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Re: Best way to create a .vbk daily and copy it to tape?

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:49 pm

You are welcome.
Surebackup recoverability testing is considered as the best practice. However, note that it`s not available for Standard Edition.
This topic can also help you to decide. Please take a look.
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