Can you set tapes to be appendable until a certain time?

[cffit]

With Backup Exec, I could put 5 tapes in our library at the beginning of the week and each one would rest of the week. I'd have a tape for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday to all do incrementals. The protect date would work so that on Monday night, only the Monday night tape was unprotected, so it would use the Monday night tape, etc. Also, after Monday night's backup ran, that tape would be appendable until X hours later. That way, when Tuesday came around, if I didn't have Monday's tape exported, Tuesday's backup would only go to the Tuesday tape, even though the Monday tape had room, because the Monday tape became marked unappendable by the time Tuesday's backup would run.

With Veeam I think that if I ran a backup on Monday, if I didn't export the tape then Tuesday's backup would just start appending to Monday night's tape rather than write to the Tuesday tape. This becomes an issue on holidays because if someone isn't in every day of the week to export the previous night's backup tape, then we start having multiple days write to a tape that represents a single day.

All of these tapes would be in the same media pool just to clarify.

[Dima P.]

Hello Christensen,
There is no way to 'link' media for each day of the week, however, there is an option to create media set for each tape backup session. It would produce one tape (or more is needed) per one tape backup session (one job run), and then it could be exported. Please, take a look at media set creation settings details. Thank you.

[cffit]

I wasn't looking to link the media to a day, I was looking at saying for instance, tapes in media pool X are appendable until X hours after they are written to. That way you can still have the tape in the library, but it can't be written to and the backup will chose the next available tape. That might be a feature request I guess.

[tsightler]

I think what you are looking for is under the "Media Set" options of the Media Pool settings. If you configure the "Create new media set" option to create a new media set at 12AM every day (or the specific time/specific days you prefer), then you will get effectively this behavior. For example, with this option the first backup that runs on Monday would start a new tape, further backup jobs would continue to use this tape (unless it was full, in which case the media set would take a second tape). However, once the time passed 12AM, a new media set would be created which would require a new tape, even if the active tape in the current media set has space. The tapes in the prior media setup would then be subject to the overwrite protection for the media pool. I think this is exactly what you are looking to do.

[cffit]

Thanks tsightler. That's effectively what I'm looking to do. I'm not sure if there is a downside to creating a new media set every single weekday. I guess I'd just need to have 10 media sets as we have two weeks worth of daily incremental backups that get reused after two weeks. What VEEAM uses media sets for is different than what I'm used to I guess. Thanks.

[tsightler]

I can't think of a downside to creating a new media set every day if you're already wanting to use a single tape for each day. A media set is simply a logical grouping of media that goes together. In your case it sounds like you only need a single tape every day, so in reality you have a media set every day anyway, it's just that you "set" is only a single tape.

The primary use case for media sets is to simplify rotation of media offsite. If I create a new media set every day, the previous days media set (whether it be a single tape or multiple tapes) can be exported and taken offsite. However, it's not required to take the tape offsite, you can simply use it to force a new tape to be used the next day and I think that will work for you.

[cffit]

So in my case, this is my backup rotation:

Week1 Full
MondayA Inc
TuesdayA Inc
WednesdayA Inc
ThursdayA Inc
FridayA Inc
Week2 Full
MondayB Inc
TuesdayB Inc
WednesdayB Inc
ThursdayB Inc
FridayB Inc
Week3 Full
MondayA Inc
.....

So my MondayA tape is used on a Monday, then taken offsite until it is used again in 14 days. In this case, would I need 10 media sets for my incremental tapes, each named MondayA, TuesdayA, etc... or would I just have it create a new media set everyday ongoing for the incrementals? If I did go with creating 10 media sets, would I need 10 different jobs too?

[tsightler]

You don't create media sets, they are automatically created based on the settings of the media pool. I don't think you need to do anything other than configure the options of your media pool to start a new media set every day and configure the pool for 14 day overwrite. It sounds like you're taking tapes offsite every day, is that correct? So there's only ever one tape available for overwrite, which will be the next tape. Either that, or you can manually mark the tape that you want it to use as "free" in the pool.

So I think you would need two media pools, one for full backups, the other for incrementals, with the incremental pool configure for creating a new media set each day.

[cffit]

Thanks for the suggestions tsightler. One last question.. If my daily backups M-F run from say 8-10AM and I do new media set every day and have a 14 day protection, will 14 days work for this? Or should I do 13? Say my MondayA Inc backup runs at 8, finishes at 10. It's protected for 14 days, so when 14 days pass and MondayA Inc backup runs again, the tape won't officially be a 100% 14 days old yet. It will be 13 days and 22 hours old. Does the protection start from the time the tape is first written to or last written to? Does VEEAM count the days for protection from the very moment of the backup running, or does it just count "days" and 13 days and 22 hours is considered 14 days? Just curious how it works because depending on how it works, because if I put in 4 tapes for the days of the week for Incrementals, technically at 13 days there will be two tapes each day open to write to during the backup period.

With BE, I just set the media pool to be protected for 13.5 days (13.5x24hours) and there was never any overlap of more than one tape being available on any given day's backup window. Hope that makes sense. This might be a non-issue if VEAAM always attempts to fill a tape up rather than grabbing whatever tape is available.

Also, is there a way to look at the properties of a tape (whether it's on or offline) to see when it's protected until?

[veremin]

Also, is there a way to look at the properties of a tape (whether it's on or offline) to see when it's protected until?

It might be possible with some powershell scripting in place. For instance, this script shows names of cassettes that have experied protection period. Thanks.

[cffit]

Is there any way in the GUI to see when a tape is protected until though? If not, that's a huge product suggestion. It's important when I put a tape in to run overnight for me to know if it's still protected or not.

[Dima P.]

Christensen,
You mean the exact expiration date? It would be possible in the upcoming release.

[cffit]

Yes. If I have a physical tape that I want to use every Monday, but not be overwritten before then, I would set the retention to 7 days. If my backup starts one Monday at 8AM and finishes at 10AM. When does the retention last until? The next Monday at 8AM or 10AM? And if my backup is set to run at 8AM, will a 7 day retention keep the backup from running exactly a week later at exactly 8AM?

As I was saying earlier, with Backup Exec I could set retention by the hour, so I would set it for a few hours less than 7 full days and that accomplished what I was needed.

Also, if a tape is 25% full after I run it on a Monday, when I run it the next Monday after it has passed the retention period it will overwrite correct? It won't continue to append correct?

[Dima P.]

Christensen,

If my backup starts one Monday at 8AM and finishes at 10AM. When does the retention last until? The next Monday at 8AM or 10AM? And if my backup is set to run at 8AM, will a 7 day retention keep the backup from running exactly a week later at exactly 8AM?

Currently, we check days - so in your case if the tape backup was started on Monday "no matter what" it would be retired next on next Monday. Just to be sure I will double-check that with Dev team, and let you know the results in a few days.

Also, if a tape is 25% full after I run it on a Monday, when I run it the next Monday after it has passed the retention period it will overwrite correct? It won't continue to append correct?

Yes, tape should be completely overwritten.

**Edit: Confirmed with Dev.

[cffit]

Ok, thank you for the response. Just to be 100% clear, if I run a backup on Monday night at 8PM and my media pool for that tape has a retention of 7 days, it will be allowed to overwrite come 12AM on the next Monday AM?

[Dima P.]

Yes, we described your scenario specifically: 'hours' should not be counted in retention - only 'days'.

[cffit]

Thank you, that's very helpful.

[cffit]

I'm finding that if I have a media pool with a 14 day retention, and I run a backup on say Wednesday at 8:05AM, that tape cannot be written to again exactly 14 days later at 8:05AM. Can someone let me know how I can view the retention date of the tape and when it is available to be overwritten? If I need to use powershell or sql queries that is ok. Thanks.

[veremin]

There are two parameters might be helpful in your case. The first one is .lastwritetime (tape medium) that indicates the time tape was written last time, the second one is .Options.OverwritePeriod.value (media pool) that shows the overwrite period of media pool. Combining them together, you can the date when the tape will be overwritten.

So to say,

Code: Select all

$Tape.lastwritetime + $MediaPool.Options.OverwritePeriod.value = necessary information.

If you need any assistance with scripting stuff, don't hesitate to let me know.

Thanks.

[cffit]

I know for certain that the statement made indicating that the overwrite protection pertained to days only and the hours in the day didn't matter is not correct. From my experience, a tape that is in a media pool set to protect for 14 days, and is first written to at 8:05AM on day, cannot be overwritten until exactly 14 days (336 hours) from the time the initial job ENDS, the second job STARTS or the last job FINISHES. I cannot quite pinpoint it yet, but I can say for 100% certainty that it doesn't work the way d.popov explained in this thread (not to blame or sound negative, just to clear things up).

I don't understand how to get the values from the powershell commands above. The code you put isn't really what I'd type in is it? You are just giving me variables? So what exactly would I type in if my tape barcode was A705L5?

[veremin]

I was trying to give you some hints how the whole process can be scripted. The first variable is a tape medium that can be gotten using Get-VBRTapeMedium command, the second one is a media pool that can be gotten using Get-VBRTapeMediaPool command.

At the moment, I don't have an access to the console. But once I will be in the office tomorrow, I will be able to provide a script example.

Thanks.

[Dima P.]

Christensen,
Thank you for the heads up! I am really sorry it does not work as expected for your scenario. To figure out what went wrong and pass this information to QA department for the investigation, would you be so kind to provide me with the detailed information on your current configuration:

- "Monday Increment" media pool configuration: how many tapes in the pool, media set creation option
- Backup to tape job settings: Backup files (tape job is linked to backup job or to repository), do you use eject/export in the Options step and what is job schedule

From the conversation above I understood that you are using two media pools one for weekly full’s another for daily increments – is that correct? Could you, please, clarify when the tape in the question was actually retired?

Thank you.

[veremin]

The following script should answer your requirements. It lists tape mediums, along with, their barcodes, names, mediapools they belong to, etc. Using two parameters mentioned above, the script also show the overwrite dates:

Code: Select all

Get-VBRTapeMedium | where {$_.FindMediaPool().name -ne "Free"} |  Select-Object -Property @{N="Name";E={$_.Name}}, @{N="Barcode";E={$_.Barcode}},@{N="Media Pool";E={$_.FindMediaPool().name}},@{N="Retention";E={$_.FindMediaPool().Options.OverwritePeriod.value}}, @{N="Last write";E={$_.LastWriteTime}}, @{N="Overwrite date";E={$_.lastwritetime + $_.FindMediaPool().Options.OverwritePeriod.ToTimeSpan()}}

Thanks.

[cffit]

Thank you v.Eremin, that's exactly what I needed. And it shows me when overwrite protection is set. It takes the time of when the last job finished writing to the tape and then adds on the retention period to that.

To clarify d.popov, this is a simplified example of what I was doing:

I have incremental tapes that run each weekday, and they were part of a media pool that had a 7 day retention. When my Monday jobs ran, they started at 8:00AM and finished around 9:30AM. With a 7 day retention, this means that the first Monday my job ran at 8:00AM and finished at 9:30AM. But then the next Monday, that tape was not writeable until 9:30AM. So when my job ran at 8:00AM it would complain that it needed a tape, but then would eventually start running 9:30AM when the overwrite protection ran out. So then it would run from 9:30AM to 11AM. Then the next week it couldn't run until 11AM, etc,etc.

As I understood from your explanation before, and what you confirmed with dev, when my tape ran on Monday at 8AM with a 7 day retention set on the media pool, the tape would be overwriteable the next Monday at midnight because the retention just applied to days and it didn't matter what time of day the last backup ran.

So with all this said, I just set the retention to be 6 days and that way my tapes become available about 22.5 hours ahead of time. My one worry about this was that other tapes would become unprotected during my backups (since each day the next day's tape would become available at 9:30AM), but I think VEEAM will continue to use the tape that it starts with at 8AM.

Thanks for all your help guys.

[dualdj1]

Just wanted to add a bump for hopefully establishing an append period on media set. Would be a nice added feature.

Someone mentioned setting media set creation daily/weekly. I currently have mine set to create friday at noon, before the backups run for the weekend. I kicked off a job today, that didn't run over the weekend, and went to pull my tapes from 2 weeks ago, only to find veeam had grabbed one of the tapes with free space to use on my current job. So it appears having tapes in a different media set, won't prevent them from being appended.

For clarification, if you want to pass to the devs, here's exactly what happened.

Started a tape dupe job.
Veeam allocated an unused tape from the Free pool, and apparently created a new media set, named VEEAM Full 1/2/2014 12:23PM (my media pool is set to Fridays at Noon for new media set, and no jobs had run since last friday).
Once the first tape was full, Veeam allocated a tape from the previous week's backup, that had available space, on media set VEEAM Full 12/22/2013 9:01AM.
Job continued running, tape doesn't appear to have been overwritten, just appended to.

Not sure if this is a bug or what the deal is. Normally I wouldn't have run into this, but I wasn't able to pull the tapes from the previous week before starting the current week's job. But it sounds like VEEAM should not use a tape from another media set than the job started with, correct?

[veremin]

Thank you v.Eremin, that's exactly what I needed. And it shows me when overwrite protection is set. It takes the time of when the last job finished writing to the tape and then adds on the retention period to that.

Yep, this is the way it works. Also, you can run Get-Member command in order to see what particular parameters a tape medium has. If need be, the required parameters can be included to the provided script.

@dualdj1

As mentioned above, once the retention period is over, even if it has some data written, the tape should be overwritten, not appended to. So, if you're seeing different behaviour, you can open a case with our support team and let them investigate it directly.

Thanks.