Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Everything about backing up to tape

Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Steen » Thu May 21, 2015 1:04 pm

v.Eremin wrote:Guys, do you see the said behaviour during the first cycle only? Or whenever time for creating virtual full backup comes, there are two full backups archived to tapes (virtual one and the oldest point from forward forever incremental chain)?

first Tape-job:
0 directories and 2 files backed up successfully

backup to disk:
merge old vbk into new

SecondTape-job says:
No new files to backup per job settings

???
Is it only possible to 1 Tape-job per day?

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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby florian.meier » Thu May 21, 2015 1:08 pm

Okey. So the problem is, that veeam backup to tape creates inital two vbks and i cant deactivate this, right?
as i understand, i cant do anything to bringt my data with only once vbk to tape, right?

thats a big issue for us, because we have many data that we want to write on tape, and now the hole job need doubled space on tape..
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby martynuk » Thu May 21, 2015 1:20 pm

I was just thinking the same thing. The logic for virtual full tape backups appears to be flawed. Why would you want (or indeed need) to copy the existing VBK as well? Since the VBK changes ever copy job/backup cycle, I'm guessing it will get copied every time. This new feature sounded very promising, but still hasn't delivered anything of any benefit.
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby florian.meier » Thu May 21, 2015 1:38 pm

yes martynuk, this isnt really a feature, youre right!
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Thu May 21, 2015 1:41 pm

Florian, a possible workaround is to make an active full of the source job manually and start newly created backup-to-tape before the next run of the source job. Choose to copy to tape only the latest backup chain.
However, you will have additional full backup on the disk repository until the oldest is deleted by retention.
Thanks!
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu May 21, 2015 2:00 pm

martynuk wrote:Since the VBK changes ever copy job/backup cycle, I'm guessing it will get copied every time.

Nope, your guess is wrong. Kindly, check my answer provided previously.

v.Eremin wrote:However, starting from that moment, only one virtual full backup will be created on tape.
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Steen » Thu May 21, 2015 2:03 pm

v.Eremin wrote:
martynuk wrote:Since the VBK changes ever copy job/backup cycle, I'm guessing it will get copied every time.

Nope, your guess is wrong. Kindly, check my answer provided previously.

v.Eremin wrote:However, starting from that moment, only one virtual full backup will be created on tape.



What happends when first tape-job expires/overwrites?
Will it create a full+Synthetic or just Synthetic?
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu May 21, 2015 2:09 pm

Will it create a full+Synthetic or just Synthetic?

Just virtual full backup.
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Steen » Thu May 21, 2015 2:15 pm

v.Eremin wrote:
Will it create a full+Synthetic or just Synthetic?

Just virtual full backup.


This behavior is for all tapes-job (i got 3)
So i should make first(full+synthetic) with short retention and second overwrites first tape and then extend retention?

this would take about 10 days per job to do and so in about 30 days i maybe have an running tape-backup?
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby florian.meier » Thu May 21, 2015 2:30 pm

v.Eremin thank you, but we are not able to create additional an active full for everything, because of space.
what do you think, is this a reported bug and veeam will fix it as soon as possible?
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Steen » Thu May 21, 2015 7:29 pm

v.Eremin wrote:
Will it create a full+Synthetic or just Synthetic?

Just virtual full backup.


Hi.
I tested this:
1. first tape-job = Full+Synthentic
2. Second tape-job= Synthetic
3. third tape-job= Synthetic
4. Marked all Tapes as free
5. Fourth tape-job= Full!!+Syntetic

(if you have made an extra Full it will be 2 Full+Synthetic)

This doesnt seeams not to work as espected
To makes this to work i must save Full indefinitly?
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby martynuk » Fri May 22, 2015 9:23 am

There doesn't appear to be any way to configure a tape backup job to avoid this happening. Tape backup jobs will copy a VBK to tape if it hasn't already been copied. This is hard-coded functionality. A virtual full will be additional to this.

What happens when the tape which contains the VBK is expired and returned to the Free pool? In this case is it copied again on the next job run?

I understand now that this is "working as designed". This isn't the same as "working as desired". I suspect this is an enhancement request rather than a bug?
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Fri May 22, 2015 11:45 am

This doesnt seeams not to work as espected

Nope, it does seem to work as expected, because you've literally simulated the initial cycle. When you erased all mediums (even the one that contained the latest virtual full backup), you made backup console unaware of point before which it should look for backup files.

When virtual full backup is created, backup console automatically memorizes its creation date. Starting from this moment, backup server won't try to copy points creation time of which is older than that date.

What happens when the tape which contains the VBK is expired and returned to the Free pool? In this case is it copied again on the next job run?

With virtual full backup enabled the oldest restore point (.vbk that is being merged on regular basis) will be copied only once. Even when tape containing it returns to Free pool, the said point wouldn't be copied, as virtual backup would be utilized, instead.

Thanks.
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Steen » Fri May 22, 2015 1:43 pm

v.Eremin wrote:
This doesnt seeams not to work as espected

Nope, it does seem to work as expected, because you've literally simulated the initial cycle. When you erased all mediums (even the one that contained the latest virtual full backup), you made backup console unaware of point before which it should look for backup files.

When virtual full backup is created, backup console automatically memorizes its creation date. Starting from this moment, backup server won't try to copy points creation time of which is older than that date.

What happens when the tape which contains the VBK is expired and returned to the Free pool? In this case is it copied again on the next job run?

With virtual full backup enabled the oldest restore point (.vbk that is being merged on regular basis) will be copied only once. Even when tape containing it returns to Free pool, the said point wouldn't be copied, as virtual backup would be utilized, instead.

Thanks.



I returned the tape to free pool and next time the tape-job ran it copied full+Synthetic again.'
This isnt good when you have 50 TB data to protect.

You think this is good logic?

(Full = all vbk-files)

1. first run of tape-job = Full+Synthentic
2. Second run of tape-job= Synthetic
3. third run of tape-job= Synthetic
4. Marked all Tapes as free
5. Fourth run of tape-job= Full!!+Syntetic

but this isnt correct
"... Even when tape containing it returns to Free pool, the said point wouldn't be copied, as virtual backup would be utilized, instead..."
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Re: Forever forward and synthesizing full to tape

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Fri May 22, 2015 1:49 pm

You can always go for "traditional" incremental backup method which includes periodic full backups and set a proper retention.
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