FR: Cleaning not only when doing backups

[mkretzer]

Hello,

we have a feature request: Cleaning should not only been done when running backups. At least manual cleaning via Veeam GUI should be possible.

We have one tape library which is only doing tape verifications of our GFS tapes. Every verify session reads about 115 TB of data, which means that most of the time the drive requires cleaning after a verification.

To clean we must currently disable the library and manually clean the drive.

Or would library-initialized auto-cleaning be acceptable in such a configuration?

Markus

[Dima P.]

Hello Markus,

You can use automated cleaning with Veeam B&R without any issues. Yes it's automated (there is no way to start the process manually), but cleaning is performed as pre/post job activity: when we receive cleaning request from the drive we will finish the current job and perform cleaning. If somehow cleaning was not performed next tape job will start it prior writing data to tape. Thanks!

[mkretzer]

Hello,

i don not think you understand our issue: This specific tape drive *never* writes to a tape, only verifies (read my first post again for details).

In such a configuration would libary-controlled cleaning be an option? I think it could collide with Veeam commands to the device.

Markus

[Dima P.]

Got it, thanks! I am afraid we do not perform cleaning during verification but we will check with QA guys.

[mkretzer]

It would be nice if it would be job-independent - when the tape drive signals a needed cleaning a backround task should start which has high priority (like a tape restore which also is able to run in the middle of another backup session).

[Dima P.]

Yup, can confirm that cleaning is performed only by backup to tape and file to tape jobs. Verification job can only receive cleaning request and pass it further to the backup job. We've noted an improvement request. Thanks Markus!

[mkretzer]

My question is still not answered: "In such a configuration would libary-controlled cleaning be an option?"

[soncscy]

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be.

If it's a dedicated "verification library", then as best I know, you can set the library scheduling as per your desire. So I think this is quite fine to do.

But I totally get your point, it would be great to allow a manual trigger of cleaning, maybe via powershell I don't personally understand why some people want such things, but I get the request a non-trivial number of times from clients and if they want to burn through cleaning tapes/drives, that's on them to set up the scripting in my opinion.

[karsten123]

I personally prefer to set auto clean in the library itself, because the library knows best when to clean. Like this, it works like a charm.
And hide the slot with the cleaning tape from Veeam.

[Dima P.]

In such a configuration would libary-controlled cleaning be an option?

Sure.

it would be great to allow a manual trigger of cleaning

Yup, makes sense. We've noted serval improvement requests for next versions.

I personally prefer to set auto clean in the library itself, because the library knows best when to clean. Like this, it works like a charm.

Such setup works ok, but there might be some minor issues we've seen in the past: cleaning may somehow postpone the tape jobs from running and that might violate the backup schedule.

[mkretzer]

Hello,

we still have this issue - using Library-Initiated cleaning means we have to definie a fixed cleaning slot. It easyly can happen that tapes get slot swapped thus auto-cleaning no longer works and tapes in the dedicated cleaning slots are no longer found (this happended here).

Is auto-cleaning still not working with V12 when we never write to a tape?

Markus

[Dima P.]

Hello Markus,

No changes in v12. Did i get it write that the problem is with assigning the dedicated cleaning slot and you need to the ability to manually click on the cleaning tape and initiate the cleaning within B&R? Thanks!

[mkretzer]

Hello,

the request is still the same: "We have one tape library which is only doing tape verifications of our GFS tapes. Every verify session reads about 115 TB of data, which means that most of the time the drive requires cleaning after a verification. "

Manually assigning a cleaning slots enables library controlled cleaning, but when the cleaning tape get swapped to the wrong slot we are at risk that the tape in the cleaning slots does not get read (which is very bad in a verification scenario).
Optimally auto-cleaning should happen by Veeam independent from any kind of sessions.

As a workaround we will now start a weekly small file to tape job. I hope that will initiate auto-cleaning but it also means we have to sacrifice a tape slot/tape to which data is written which does not really need to be written...

Markus

[karsten123]

what is the problem with library controlled auto clean? i always use that mechanism and never got any problems.

[mkretzer]

Problem is that if for some reason you use one of the cleaning slots (usally we have two) for a normal tape this tape never gets seen by Veeam.

It worked well for us as well but then someone moved one cleaning tape by mistake and from that point on all our tape validations were no longer done for all tapes...

[Regnor]

What library/vendor do you have in place? So far I've never seen cleaning slots. Instead the library should know from the inventory where the cleaning tape is stored.

[mkretzer]

Quantum i3. As far as i know it needs dedicated cleaning slots.

[Regnor]

I've read the documentation and it seems to be this way with Quantum. That's not as flexible as with other vendors.

[david.domask]

>>Problem is that if for some reason you use one of the cleaning slots (usally we have two) for a normal tape this tape never gets seen by Veeam.


@mkretzer, the dedicated cleaning slots on tape changers are typically only for if you use Library initiated cleaning; the slots are set so that backup applications don't have the ability to interact with the dedicated cleaning slot and only the library can move tapes to and from:

https://qsupport.quantum.com/kb/flare/c ... n_Cleaning
https://qsupport.quantum.com/kb/flare/c ... ning_Slots

From Quantum's documentation, you only use cleaning slots with the Library initiated cleaning (i.e., Library managed cleaning); if you want a backup application like Veeam to manage it, don't us Cleaning Slots, just ensure the tape is barcoded correctly and backup applications will understand which tapes to use.

[mkretzer]

@david.damiask exactly thats what i mean - if we user library cleaning there is the risk that someone accidentally puts tapes in there. If you use application initialized cleaning it does not work when you have a driver never doing backups (only validations and restores).

[karsten123]

then please let skilled personnel change the tapes, please!

[mkretzer]

LOL. Errors can happen, even with skilled personel.

What your saying is "don't use application based cleaning" - but since Veeam implemeted the feature i see no reason for Veeam to not optimize it to customer demand.

I give you an exaple: Often a cleaning request comes early in a 170 TB verification session - which might cause the session to fail if cleaning was really neccessary.

[Dima P.]

I think we can all agree that errors indeed happen and manual options to start a cleaning via right clicking on a tape might come hand in many situations. The request is still considered for next versions, thank you for sharing your thoughts guys!