Does VEB benefit from REFS?

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Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby yasuda » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:01 pm

I've been reading about how Server 2016 and REFS repositories increase the speed of incremental merges. Is Veeam Endpoint able to take advantage of REFS?

Scenario 1: Backup target is an SMB share on Server 2016 with REFS
Scenario 2: Backup target is a VBR 9.5 repository on Server 2016 with REFS

We have multiple VEB backups going to a Server 2008 SMB share, which is a DROBO, and the merge operations are getting very slow. My last one took over 4 hours to merge a 4 GB incremental.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby jmmarton » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:26 pm

Since VEB is a forever forward incremental backup, no, it can't really take advantage of ReFS--yet. :-) With the upcoming Veeam Agent for Windows 2.0 release, there will be options to configure backup methods (including in the free version). Once you configure synthetic fulls then they should take advantage of ReFS when going to a VBR 9.5 repository (may require 9.5 update 1).

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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:04 pm

Just a clarification, there are two advantages from refs integration: one is spaceless GFS as Joe noted, but also during transform there is a heavy reduction of I/O since now it's more metadata updates, and I believe this is what Peter was referring to. Forever incremental doesn't give any space reduction when using refs, but surely can benefit from I/O-less transform operations, the same used to run VEB backups. This said, final list of features is not available yet so I'll let to our product management to comment on refs compatibility.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:48 am

It should be possible to use VEB 1.5 with ReFS now but it won’t provide any additional functionality.

Joe is right regarding the upcoming v2.0. In order to get all the benefits from ReFS repository VAW 2.0 must use Veeam Backup and Replication as a backup destination with ReFS as a VBR repository.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:45 pm

And what about local ReFS - why it would not be supported there, considering it is the same exact data mover used in both cases?
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby yasuda » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:28 pm

Thank you everyone for the info. Luca is correct; the I/O-less transforms is the main thing I was looking for. We have enough raw storage capacity; it's the duration of merges that is the problem. It makes VEB useless for our engineers because they are only in the office a couple hours at a time. I already made a feature request to have the merge process handled offline by the backup server, so the VEB agent only needs to be connected long enough to complete the incremental backup.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby jmmarton » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:44 pm

Gostev wrote:And what about local ReFS - why it would not be supported there, considering it is the same exact data mover used in both cases?

That would require VAW 2.0 as well, wouldn't it? Since VEB 1.5 isn't supported on Server 2016?

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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:17 pm

Joe,

True. We are dicussing this option with the dev team.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Eamonn Deering » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:12 pm

I'm testing Veeam Agent Beta 2.0.0.595 Free Edition and backing up a local volume to a Veeam B@R ReFS Repo. Only option I see is "Active Full Backup". No Synthetic Backup option. I have it set to do a full every day.

Each backup looks to be taking up the full space. No zero byte backup.

Is there ReFS support for any version of the Agent?

Thanks
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:30 pm

No Synthetic Backup option. I have it set to do a full every day.

Free edition does not have synthetic full option. Workstation or Server edition is required.
Is there ReFS support for any version of the Agent?

BETA supports fast merge when ReFS is added as VBR repo. GA will support fast merge for direct backup to ReFS location.
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[MERGED] Endpoint and Fastclone merges (ReFS integration)

Veeam Logoby Keyser » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:13 pm

I have some Veeam Endpoint clients pointed to a 9.5 B&R Repository using ReFS om server 2016 for use of the fastclone technology.

My B&R backup jobs uses the FastClone tech just fine, but my Endpoint backup jobs still uses a very long time to merge the oldest incremental into the full file. And I see no reference to fastclone being used.
Is Fastclone not supported with Endpoint backup jobs?

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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Hi Keyser,

VEB knows nothing about ReFS, so no additional functionality is supported in the existing versions. Regarding upcoming functionality of VAW 2.0, kindly, check this thread.
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[MERGED]Veeam EP 2.0 with ReFS?

Veeam Logoby AlexLeadingEdge » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:48 am

Does Veeam EP 2.0 work with ReFS on Windows Server 2016?

(I see that your competitor Storage Craft's latest product Shadow Protect SPX doesn't support ReFS!!!)
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:23 am

Hi AlexLeadingEdge,

VEB supports ReFS without any benefits. Upcoming VAW 2.0 will have advanced functionality while ReFS is used as a target.
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Re: Does VEB benefit from REFS?

Veeam Logoby AlexLeadingEdge » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:57 pm

Hi, thanks for the quick reply! I mixed up my terms when I said VEB 2.0, I was meaning the new Veeam Agent for Windows (VAW) 2.0 Beta.
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