Not trustworthy (yet)

Backup agent for Microsoft Windows servers and workstations (formerly Veeam Endpoint Backup FREE)

Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:12 am

Hello,

One of the computers here went into corrupted Windows installation state (Windows 10 if you curious). No backups at all.
I decided to backup user files first then perform fresh install of Win10 then restore files. Simple task you say...
So, I backed the computer using VEB and to just in case using Trueimage. Both on the volume level. No problem whatsoever.

During restore I realized that several quirks/issues/show stoppers, hope anyone can comment that:

1) File restore from backup doesn't exist. Instead it's just backup browser without "restore" button. It was nightmare crawling thru several directories, pressing copy, choosing destination folder and so on. That's really missing functionality.
2) During "restore" process I realized that some of the files are missing! I could find Outlook .OST files as an example, also some databases were missing as well. WTH??? How I can be sure that all else is still in backup???
Issues from general testing:
3) Where is the option to remove any of the backups? During tests I've created unnecessary backup with tons of temp databases, it's something I'd like to get rid of.
4) I deleted last incremental backup file manually, perform another backup (it was full), then tried to restore; only last backup was visible, all previous backups was gone (backup files are there but restore ignores them).

Thanks,
Mark

PS Finally I launched Trueimage and restored everything I needed (together with .OST files)
mmark
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:58 am

Hi Marek,

1. Can you post a screenshot of the restore browser? Here is a detailed step by step guide that shows how to restore files and folders > File-level restore
2. Where do you store these files? On the local disks? What backup mode did you use for VEB?
3. These backup files will be removed according to your retention policy. However, you can also remove backup files manually if necessary.
4. Can you please tell me what happens if you try to import your existing backup chain to Veeam backup server? Do you also see only latest backup chain?

Thanks for your feedback!
Vitaliy S.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:19 pm

Hi Vitaly,

1) Sure. Image
2) Local USB drive. As stated in my post; volume level backup. Default settings.
3) When I removed last incremental backup file next time VEB created full backup and "forgot" everything that happened before.
4) Didn't tried that. Will try. Both volume restore and file restore sees only last full backup and nothing happened before that. See above.

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:29 pm

2. Ah... that explains it. With VEB you can only backup local disks and disks that are connected via iSCSI. Direct attached disks (USBs) cannot be backed up, see this topic for more info > External Drive not being backed up
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:44 pm

Hello,
File restore from backup doesn't exist. Instead it's just backup browser without "restore" button. It was nightmare crawling thru several directories, pressing copy, choosing destination folder and so on. That's really missing functionality.

I am not sure I follow and screenshot is not opening for some reason. Kindly take a look at this post - it explains a lot Recovery possibilities in depth: File level recovery. For instance you can use C:\VeeamFLR folder to browse the backup once the file level recovery is started
During "restore" process I realized that some of the files are missing! I could find Outlook .OST files as an example, also some databases were missing as well. WTH??? How I can be sure that all else is still in backup???

OST file is excluded from MS VSS snapshot by default. Actually, this behavior is more likely expected in other backup solutions unless the following workaround is implemented Oops? Windows 7 Backup omits key Outlook mail files and this one might be a good explanation why its happening: Why CompletePC Backup does not include .ost files in the backup image

As we figured out the files stored on USB drives are not included in the backup. I assume you had a symbolic link on the disk, is that correct?
3) Where is the option to remove any of the backups? During tests I've created unnecessary backup with tons of temp databases, it's something I'd like to get rid of.
4) I deleted last incremental backup file manually, perform another backup (it was full), then tried to restore; only last backup was visible, all previous backups was gone (backup files are there but restore ignores them).

No reasonable explanation here, as it does not sound like expected (unless with .vib file, .vbm was accidentally deleted). Please open a support case to investigate this behavior.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:47 pm

2) No. I mean that files are stored on local C: drive (SSD to be precise). Backup file is stored on local USB disk. Sorry for confusion.
Point is still valid. Some files are missing in backup file.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:01 pm

1) Screenshot once again: Image
2) thanks for links Dima. it explain the issue. Anyway would be better to have a control over excluded files. Competitor software has no problem with this. No, file are store on SSD, no symbolic links here.
3.4) Try it yourself. Delete last incremental backup and see what happened. Will double check again in spare time.

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:26 pm

Now I see – thanks Mark! The restore choice is displayed when the File level recovery is launched at the original operating system/machine, so the folder structure is preserved.

That explains only the missing .ost (third party backup software, I believe, just modifies the regkey as described in the first article I’ve shared), but not the files – please open a support case via Endpoint’s Control Panel > Support: support folks will take a look at the logs and such.

Will check the incremental issue you described. Meanwhile, please check might be the files are just not automatically located (again because of non-original location) and must be browsed manually at the first step of the recovery wizard (browse backup)
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:14 pm

To sum up; the issues I experienced are somehow show stoppers (at least for me) and I'd like to see two extra features in next builds:

1) Add ability to restore files from backup even if it's not original OS/machine. Scenarios like reinstall OS, setup additional machine for the same user or simple machine upgrade aren't exotic...
2) Let user control the list of excluded files/folders. I'd like to backup .ost files! Restoring 8GB ost file from exchange isn't fast...
BTW What else is excluded from backup by default?

Will do another tests with missing backups in spare time. Will keep you posted.
Mark

PS Only .OST files were missing in VEB backup, I'm so sorry for misleading info. Looks like other mentioned files were moved to another location between VEB and Trueimage backups. Mea culpa.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:11 pm

Here is the list of all files that are excluded by default:
Veeam Endpoint Backup automatically adds to the list of exclusions the following Microsoft Windows objects for all computer users: temporary files folder, Recycle Bin, Microsoft Windows pagefile, hibernate file and VSS snapshot files from the System Volume Information folder.
Vitaliy S.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:55 pm

Thanks Mark!
Add ability to restore files from backup even if it's not original OS/machine. Scenarios like reinstall OS, setup additional machine for the same user or simple machine upgrade aren't exotic...

By the way, I was explaining why there is no “Restore” choice and only “Copy to” option. Thru copy to you can restore the file from the backup browser UI to the desired location :wink:
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby mmark » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:48 pm

Dima P. wrote:Thanks Mark!
Add ability to restore files from backup even if it's not original OS/machine. Scenarios like reinstall OS, setup additional machine for the same user or simple machine upgrade aren't exotic...

By the way, I was explaining why there is no “Restore” choice and only “Copy to” option. Thru copy to you can restore the file from the backup browser UI to the desired location :wink:


Great explanation ;) Kind of "It's not a bug, it's a feature!" :) Oh, just keep both "Copy" and "Restore". Yin and Yang. Balance. Everyone happy...

BTW Would be great to have checkboxes too and just one restore button. Much more productive in case of restoring many huge files.

Vitaliy S. wrote:Here is the list of all files that are excluded by default:
Veeam Endpoint Backup automatically adds to the list of exclusions the following Microsoft Windows objects for all computer users: temporary files folder, Recycle Bin, Microsoft Windows pagefile, hibernate file and VSS snapshot files from the System Volume Information folder.


And .OST Remember that. I will ;)

Cheers guys,
Mark
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:20 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughs Marek! We will pay attention to your feedback during next version improvements discussions. Cheers.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:05 pm

mmark wrote:2) Let user control the list of excluded files/folders. I'd like to backup .ost files! Restoring 8GB ost file from exchange isn't fast...

Well, it is definitely configurable via a registry edit (and Dmitry has already provided the link explaining the process earlier), however Microsoft specifically advises against making this change. Just keep in mind that OST skip is not a Veeam specific exclusion, it is a system wide exclusion introduced by Microsoft themselves due to significant impact on disk performance.

mmark wrote:PS Only .OST files were missing in VEB backup, I'm so sorry for misleading info. Looks like other mentioned files were moved to another location between VEB and Trueimage backups. Mea culpa.

Sounds good, thanks for coming back on this one.
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Re: Not trustworthy (yet)

Veeam Logoby snadam » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:32 pm

I'd like to hear from folks that have made the registry change AND had a chance to test restoration in the real world. If you've restored an old OST backed up by Veeam after changing the registry key, did it work, did you encounter any issues, and have you seen any other related issues with backing up Outlook data?

I'm considering the change but want to know what others have experienced before jumping in. I'm testing but only on one machine and want as much input as possible before applying this to production users.

Thanks in advance,
Adam
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