Comprehensive data protection for all workloads
Moebius
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 169
Liked: 23 times
Joined: Jun 09, 2009 2:48 pm
Full Name: Lucio Mazzi
Location: Reggio Emilia, Italy
Contact:

Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Moebius »

Hi all,
I'm almost sure this has already been covered but can't find any relevant discussion. How can I run SB on backup copy files? I am doing backup copies on an onsite NAS. If I create a dummy backup job and try to map it to the existing backup copy file it says it's already mapped to the backup copy job and asks if I want to change the mapping. I guess the correct answer is no.
So do I have to set up a separate Veeam server just for this?

Gostev
SVP, Product Management
Posts: 26336
Liked: 4107 times
Joined: Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Gostev »

Hi, the idea is that you verify backups at source (before copying them). Backup Copy job has built-in integrity check that ensure the copy is bit-identical, so there is no need to perform full recovery verification of copied backups again, given that you have already verified their recoverability at source.
Also, the best practice backup architecture includes fast "primary" backup storage, and slower "secondary" storage (with lower cost per TB). As such, unlike primary backup storage, secondary storage will not usually have enough "horse power" to run the VMs off backup files. This is also why we don't expect users to be performing recovery verification of the backup copy "target" backup, so the ability to add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job was not tested, and is disabled in the user interface to avoid potential bugs. Thanks!

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

Lucio, you're probably referring to this thread, however, as Anton has already mentioned, a recommended approach includes verification of backups before sending them offsite.

Moebius
Veeam ProPartner
Posts: 169
Liked: 23 times
Joined: Jun 09, 2009 2:48 pm
Full Name: Lucio Mazzi
Location: Reggio Emilia, Italy
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Moebius »

Fair enough, thanks Anton and Foggy.
Just for the sake of curiosity though: referring to my 1st post above, what happens if I changed the mapping of the backup copy files to the dummy backup job? Would the backup copy job stop working then?

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

It will create a new folder on target and start copying entire restore point a new.

AFCUIT
Novice
Posts: 4
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 01, 2012 4:05 pm
Full Name: Russ Williams
Contact:

[MERGED] : SureBackup Application groups & Backup Copy Files

Post by AFCUIT »

Veeam Support - Case # 00571614

Today, I discovered that SureBackup Application Groups are incapable of adding/importing VMs from a backup copy file; which really throws a wrench into testing during a disaster recovery scenario. To clarify, we have our main production Veeam server in California and another Veeam server in Oregon. The nightly backups are ran on the production server and then copied to the Oregon server using File Backup Copy.

For DR testing, we would like the ability to create a sand boxed environment in Oregon using SureBackup Application Groups and the Backup Copy files. This is a necessary test to confirm that the dependencies between the DC, Mail, Database, application, and Web servers are intact and able to communicate and function properly when restoring from backup copy files.

A Veeam Support technician verified that the Veeam console has no native ability to include backup copy files into SureBackup Application groups. We understand that this is apparently a purposeful design choice by the developers given the general intent of backup copy; however, it would very beneficial if we could create the sandbox in Oregon using the backup copy files.

Is there a way to make this work?

Thank you.

nefes
Veeam Software
Posts: 639
Liked: 160 times
Joined: Dec 10, 2012 8:44 am
Full Name: Nikita Efes
Contact:

Re: SureBackup Application groups & Backup Copy Files

Post by nefes »

There is some workaround, you can find it here: http://forums.veeam.com/powershell-f26/ ... tml#p99096
However I should mention, that sequence is officially not supported, we recommend to run SureBackup before sending files to offsite.

veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 17745
Liked: 1615 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by veremin »

Hi, Russ, please see explanation provided above by Anton; should clarify the situation with SureBackup and backup copy job support. As to the workaround, you can use the one mentioned by Nikita. Thanks.

AFCUIT
Novice
Posts: 4
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 01, 2012 4:05 pm
Full Name: Russ Williams
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by AFCUIT »

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I would like to take a step back to explain what it is we are trying to accomplish.

In our DR site, we would like to test our backups, at will, in a sandboxed environment to validate the integrity of the backup files (Backup Copy Files) and if using SureBackup and Application Groups are not possible; is there another way we can do this using the Veeam Backup Copy files?

I do understand validating the backups in SureBackup on the production side before the Backup Copy Files are transported to the DR site; BUT...the question is, did anything happen to the files during the transport? This is why it is important to test in a sandbox in the DR site.

Thank you.

veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 17745
Liked: 1615 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by veremin »

I do understand validating the backups in SureBackup on the production side before the Backup Copy Files are transported to the DR site; BUT...the question is, did anything happen to the files during the transport?
In order to prevent such issues the backup copy job has built-in integrity check, using which it makes sure that target restore point in bit identical to the source one. So, once the recoverability of source backups is verified, you do not need it to re-verify it at the remote location. Backup Copy will ensure the copy is bit-identical to the verified source. Thanks!

StrangeWill
Influencer
Posts: 24
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Aug 15, 2013 4:12 pm
Full Name: William Roush
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by StrangeWill »

Ack, I'm using BackupCopy jobs to copy a backup for testing environments so that they don't depend on our larger slower storage pool (and also storage for performance instead of compression).

I guess I could use a file copy job and import the backup files...

jking
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 4:33 pm
Full Name: Jared King
Contact:

[MERGED] Feature Request: let SureBackup verify Backup Copy

Post by jking »

I noticed when I run a SureBackup job manually and select a restore point that I'm unable to use recovery points from Backup Copy jobs. We use Backup Copy jobs for long-term retention and would like to be able to verify the monthly backups that we're storing. If this functionality can be added in the future it would be a big help.

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

Jared, basically we recommend to verify backups before archiving/sending them offsite with backup copy jobs, please see above for details. Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

jking
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 4:33 pm
Full Name: Jared King
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by jking »

foggy wrote:Jared, basically we recommend to verify backups before archiving/sending them offsite with backup copy jobs, please see above for details. Anyway, thanks for the feedback!
Foggy, I understand your reasoning for recommending we verify the backups before we make a copy of them, but it doesn't work well for us unfortunately. We want to make sure we're verifying the restore point that we'll be setting aside for monthly archival, and the only way to guarantee that is to run the SureBackup job on the same day the backup is created. Case in point: backups from the first Sunday of the month are archived, and SureBackup jobs are scheduled for the first Monday of the month. If the first Monday of the month is the 1st, we'll be verifying the backup of the last Sunday of the month, not the correct one.

We can obviously use a specific day of the month instead of the first Sunday, but we also want to schedule SureBackup jobs for a specific day of the week so we can run manual verification tests. The easiest way I can see to fix this scenario is to allow for us to verify backup copy jobs (which we don't store offsite) but if you can see another way to solve this please let me know.

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

How about triggering SureBackup jobs as a post-job activity task? The script could also contain code to verify whether it is the correct day to run backup verification (i.e. the backup job was started on the first Sunday of the month).

jking
Novice
Posts: 3
Liked: never
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 4:33 pm
Full Name: Jared King
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by jking »

Using scripts to help schedule the jobs would work, but I would still prefer to be able to verify backup copy jobs. We'll find a solution regardless, but I would still appreciate that functionality if it could be added.

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

I got your point, thanks for providing your use case.

SGalbincea
Enthusiast
Posts: 55
Liked: 6 times
Joined: May 25, 2012 2:09 pm
Full Name: Steve Galbincea
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by SGalbincea »

This is an issue for us as well. Primary backup target is a DataDomain DD2500 via DDBoost - not something you want to run VMs off of, but great for backups. I would like to be able to create a backup copy job from the DD2500 to fast storage for VMs that I need for isolated lab and development testing. I understand that I could do things the other way around and target primary then copy to DD2500, but since backup copy runs sequentially (one VM at a time) and not in parallel this is not an option for us as we cannot meet our backup windows using this method (I tried). I see no reason that this could not be added for those who are in my situation and prefer to do it this way.
Senior Solutions Engineer, SLED - VMware

frankive
Service Provider
Posts: 945
Liked: 108 times
Joined: May 14, 2013 8:35 pm
Full Name: Frank Iversen
Location: Norway
Contact:

[MERGED] Surebackup - Verify repository for backup copy job

Post by frankive »

How do I accomplish to run a surebackup against the repository of a backup copy job? The problem is that I need a dummy job to select vms from in appliacation group, but if I try to map the repository it asks me if i want to replace the mapping from the existing backup copy job which I of course cannot do.
Is there any techincal issue which prevent us from adding vms from a backup copy job in the application group? Would be great to test the integrity of our seconday and GFS points too running surebackup.

Vitaliy S.
Product Manager
Posts: 24030
Liked: 1794 times
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Vitaliy S. »

There are some workarounds for this scenario, though please do remember that it is recommended to verify restore points prior to sending them to the offsite location.

guitarfish
Enthusiast
Posts: 80
Liked: 6 times
Joined: Mar 06, 2013 4:12 pm
Contact:

[MERGED] Testing integrity of cloud repository

Post by guitarfish »

I run an Instant Restore on a weekly basis to test the integrity of my on-site backups. This option isn't available with Backup Copy jobs that I have stored in a cloud repository. How can these be tested for integrity?

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy »

There's no need to perform recovery verification of copied backups, since backup copy job has built-in integrity check that ensures the copy is bit-identical to the source.

frankive
Service Provider
Posts: 945
Liked: 108 times
Joined: May 14, 2013 8:35 pm
Full Name: Frank Iversen
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by frankive »

+1 for backup copy job as source for Surebackup.
We daily copy the last restore points to a SSD raid 10 (with samsung EVO 850) with backup copy job and we would REALLY be able to run the surebackup job from this drive.

TheMonk
Influencer
Posts: 24
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 17, 2015 3:03 pm
Full Name: Chris Armitage
Contact:

[MERGED] Virtual Lab testing copy jobs?

Post by TheMonk »

HI there

Firstly sorry if this has been asked before, ive found something similar here http://forums.veeam.com/post23984.html? ... nes#p23984 but it don't really tell me much.

Heres my situation:

We have 2 x vCenters (Site A & Site B)
Site A is our main Site
Site B is mostly DR site but does house a coupe of live VMs

At Both Sites I have a dedicated Veeam Backup Server backing up the Site VMs
Each Veeam server then pushes a COPY job to the opposite site so that we have in a sense Off site backups of our "local" backups

We have set up a couple of virtual Labs at site A.

We want to use the labs for the following purpose(s):
* Testing the Backups (The Local Site A backups and the Copied Backups from Site B)
* Using sandboxes to perform certain tests such as exchange failover etc

So with that said currently our labs are set up with what we believe is the correct network mapping. We can run surebackup jobs to test the "local" servers but HOW do I test the copy jobs and get them into the lab? So that we can basically have our network within the sandbox for inter site testing?

I believe I need to possibly import the backups? but when I did this my sure backup still couldn't see them. What am I doing wrong? if anything?

Many thanks

Vitaliy S.
Product Manager
Posts: 24030
Liked: 1794 times
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Vitaliy S. »

Hi Chris,

Backup copy jobs cannot be used as a source for the SureBackup job. Please review this thread for further details and possible tricks to achieve that if you still need it.

Thanks!

TheMonk
Influencer
Posts: 24
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 17, 2015 3:03 pm
Full Name: Chris Armitage
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by TheMonk »

Vitaliy S. wrote:Hi Chris,

Backup copy jobs cannot be used as a source for the SureBackup job. Please review this thread for further details and possible tricks to achieve that if you still need it.

Thanks!
Yes hi there....

I cant see how I get the imported files into an application group?

I've created a repository and pointed to where the copied files are. It then shows as IMPORTED within Veeam. But when I go to create a Application group I cant select the imported files?

Vitaliy S.
Product Manager
Posts: 24030
Liked: 1794 times
Joined: Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by Vitaliy S. »

Did you follow these instructions to achieve that? Did the rescan job finish successfully?

TheMonk
Influencer
Posts: 24
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 17, 2015 3:03 pm
Full Name: Chris Armitage
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by TheMonk »

under Backups I can see Disk (Imported) and see the various Vms that I can restore. The moment I go to the Virtual Lab tho and try to create an Application group I don't have the imported files....just the local backup jobs that I would expect to see and none of the copied ones

foggy
Veeam Software
Posts: 19219
Liked: 1723 times
Joined: Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by foggy » 1 person likes this post

Chris, you will not see imported backups in app group wizard, that's why there's a PowerShell command to add backups in application group.

TheMonk
Influencer
Posts: 24
Liked: never
Joined: Jun 17, 2015 3:03 pm
Full Name: Chris Armitage
Contact:

Re: Add a Backup Copy Job in the SureBackup job

Post by TheMonk »

foggy wrote:Chris, you will not see imported backups in app group wizard, that's why there's a PowerShell command to add backups in application group.
Yep you're right...I was having a bad. Ok so I can now add a server to a application group.

How to I add multiple servers though? and can I add to already existing application groups?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ChrisTong, Google [Bot] and 21 guests