B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby WingDog » Mon May 08, 2017 5:56 am 1 person likes this post

I have several Synology boxes as VBR backup repos and switched from SMB to iSCSI because of problems with "merge" process during GFS rotation - it took several days.
and with iSCSI you can MPIO.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby nick.rigas@sjasd.ca » Mon May 08, 2017 7:13 pm

Hi,

How have you configured Veeam B&R to Dedupe data that is older than 10 days?



Thanks
Nick Rigas


[quote="final"]Hi,


Backup jobs run as follows:
- Dedup any data that is older than 10 days

Our learnings after playing a lot with this setup:
- We can only achieve this our backup schedule by using post-job scripts
- Use single file per VM for your repositories, as this makes the life of the dedup job a lot easier.
- Do not dedup your newest active full, as it would slow down your desaster recovery significantly (30MB/s read instead of 600MB/s read). We're deduping only data that is older than 10 days.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby sg_sc » Mon May 08, 2017 8:00 pm

You might consider using the NAS as ISCSI block storage connected to a Windows 2016 server and format the volume using ReFS 3.1 (NO deduplication).
if you performs synthetic fulls you will see blazing fast backups, and also the merge operations (which are very problematic on some setups) will be super fast!
Another benefit of the synthetic fullls is that they do not take up the full space, on ReFS 3.1 they will only consume the changed blocks in space.
This gives you deduplication benefits without the need for deduplication.
Very handy also for a long term backup copy job with GFS scheme!
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby final » Thu May 11, 2017 9:47 am 1 person likes this post

Sorry for getting back to you so late.
@Trin: Your config sounds ok. You will have to play with it for a bit to gain experience with your solution.

@BIGNOOKIE: Raid6 has two advantages over Raid10: capacity and resilience. Raid10 obviously gives you more performance. I had to stop and think for a moment why Raid6 is more resilient, but the reason is this: When a disk failed and is replaced, Raid10 has to copy the contents of one disk to the new disk. All other disks of the Raid10 are idle during recovery. If that source disk has a single read error, your data is compromised. Raid6 on the other hand can handle a read i/o error during rebuilding (in fact, it can handle another entire disk failure during rebuilding).

Hence, from a resilience perspective, Raid10 is only marginally better than Raid5 (roughly n-1 times more resilient than Raid5, where n is the number of disks in your raid). Raid6 is order of magnitudes more resilient than Raid5. Let's do some math, cause I feel like it
Raid10
According to the spec sheet of a WD Red Pro Disk, it has a unrecoverable bit read error rate of <10 in 10^15 bits. I'll use 10^15 for arguments sake, making the disk slightly more reliable than the spec sheet says it is. A 6TB disk has about 5*10^13 bits. Assuming failures happen uniformly at random, then each read bit has a failure probability of 1/10^15. The chance of success hence is (1 - 1/10^15). Thus, the chance of successfully reading an entire 6TB disk is (1 - 1/10^15)^(5*10^13) = ~95.1%.

It follows that your Raid10 rebuild fails in more than one of twenty cases using 6TB WD Red Pro disks (more because we've taken a slightly lower error rate than what the spec sheet says).

Raid6
This is a little harder to calculate, because if a bit cannot be read from one disk, the other disks can correct this if they successfully read the raid chunk (usually 512KB or something like this), but bear with me :) Let's start with the simple thing: The chance of a Raid6 recovery succeeding without hitting a single bit read error. This is essentially the same as before, only we need to read a lot more data (n-1 disks instead of just one as in the Raid10 case). I use a Raid6 over 12 disks in this example (so we need to read the data off 10 disks), hence:
(1 - 1/10^15)^(10*5*10^13) = 60.67%

Ouch. So the probability of successfully recover such a large array without a single bit read error is quite low. This is the reason why people say Raid5 is dead (this figure above is the probability of recovering a Raid5 over 11 disks without a bit read error).
But we're Raid6. So in case we do hit a bit read error on one disk, we can recover from that if the remaining 10 disks can read their chunk of ~500KB in which the read error occurred. So:
(1 - 1/10^15)^(10 * 500 * 1024) = 99.99999948% (that's six 9s after the dot).
So the chance of a successful recovery after a bit read error is tremendously high. Combining the two figures, the chance of a Raid6 recovery not failing due to a bit read error is:
(1 - 1/10^15)^(10*5*10^13) + (1-(1 - 1/10^15)^(10*5*10^13)) * (1 - 1/10^15)^(10 * 500 * 1024) = 99.9999998% (again, six 9s after the dot).

Note: We've ignored the chance of the entire disk failing, because it's much harder to get statistics for that. But even then, Raid6 will do much better than Raid10.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby final » Thu May 11, 2017 9:51 am

nick.rigas@sjasd.ca wrote:How have you configured Veeam B&R to Dedupe data that is older than 10 days?

I tell Windows Server 2016 dedup to do that, not Veeam B&R.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby AFalb » Thu May 11, 2017 10:48 am

Hello,
I just want to add, that you can't add a Synology NAS with DSM 6.1 as Linux Server to use NFS!
Just had the experience myself and talked about it with Veeam and Synology Support. A lot of packages are missing on the NAS and the only way to get them there is to crosscompile them.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby mongie » Thu May 11, 2017 9:16 pm 1 person likes this post

Where possible, I'd recommend using REFS instead of Windows server dedupe.

I've found that enabling dedupe just makes your storage too slow. REFS doesn't seem to do this.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby thomasellaby » Thu May 11, 2017 11:01 pm

We were using CIFS to connect to a synology and had no end of problems...
Followed a doc off a blog and configured it as a linux repo and it works like 110% better now.. the only catch is the synology has to have a intel processer not an ARM Processor
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby AFalb » Fri May 12, 2017 9:59 am

Could you tell me where this blog is and is it working with DSM 6.1 or with an older Version?
I've an RS3614xs+ with an Intel Xeon E3-1230 v2 CPU
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby AlainRussell » Fri May 12, 2017 8:07 pm

These should still be relevant (apart from the SSH change - this can now be done on the web GUI .. Control Panel -> Teminal & SSH -> Advanced - > Set to "medium" - ok for us as this is not exposed externally) http://blog.millard.org/2014/11/use-syn ... itory.html We've been running ours as a Linux repo for ~2 years, the most reliable way imo. 2416+, Intel CPU running latest 6.1 patch.
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Re: B&R 9.5 to Synology - current best solution

Veeam Logoby AFalb » Thu May 18, 2017 10:30 am

Yes, so you installed and configured it as a Linux Server when you still had DSM 5!
Upgrading from DSM 5 to DSM 6 keeps a lot of files so it still works, but when you try it on a fresh install of DSM 6.1 it will not work.
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