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Tommi
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backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 09, 2010 12:57 pm

i am using veeam V5 to backup 2 VMs

vm1 (160giga)
vm2 (260giga)

i do this using a remote storrage over WAN 8/2 Mbit
i initially made a manual backup to move the data to the storrage and have ben using incrememtal backup..
this works fine,,, i use about 8 hours to make my daily backups over the Wan connection..
then the synthetic full kicked in.... and have ben working for 4 days now,... thys barring any backups from starting..

should i have ben using reversed incremental backup instead or what ??

please give me some advice... i know backup over wan is a bad idea... but it worked or me... intil the synthetic kicked in.
any advice would be greatly apriciated.

synthetic full now running allmost 5 days now and 85% complete
cheers
Tommi

Vitaliy S.
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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 09, 2010 1:55 pm

Hello Tommi,

As creating a full synthetic backup, backup server does not address vCenter Server/ESX(i) host to retrieve VM data – it uses the chain of full and incremental backups that are already kept on backup storage. Could you tell me what storage device do you use as destination target for your backup job?

Depending on the destination storage, it might be worth trying to switch to Reversed Incremental backup job mode.

Thank you!

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 09, 2010 2:02 pm

hi again..

how much data is nessery for the synthetic full to made... i can see it use the full bandwith it have on the WAN port... and i think that is the problem,, if the full 160 giga have to go from remote storage to Veeam server,, and then back through wan again,, no wonder it takes so long ???

the remote store is just a windows 2003 server with 4 Sata disks in raid 5,,, but i can see the disks themselfs is not very buisy,, only the Wan is.. ??

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Tommi

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Gostev » Nov 09, 2010 2:06 pm

Where are you backing up to?

Tommi
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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 09, 2010 2:29 pm

the baskup server is a windows 2003 server with 5 Sata disks in raid 5 thats connected to the SAN using ISCS.

i am backuping up to a windows 2003 server with 4 Sata disks in raid 5 through WAN 8/2 Mbit thats the remote store

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Tommi

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Gostev » Nov 09, 2010 2:51 pm

When backing up over WAN, you want to backup to Linux server. For Linux targets, Veeam Backup is able to install helper agents, which enable us to create synthetic full backup "locally" in remote site. The way you have set this up now however, synthetic full is constructed by sending traffic back and forth across WAN from share with backup files to Veeam server and back - this cannot work fast.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 09, 2010 8:51 pm

thanks for reply.

2 questions.
1) do you plan on making this (linux agent) to windows as well ???
2) not being a linux guy i have no idea of how to setup linux up as remote store as you are suggesting, any tips,, links .. anything.. ?? and how do i install this agent afterwards ?

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Tommi

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Gostev » Nov 09, 2010 9:15 pm

1. Yes.
2. You can use any Linux distribution, each one has own guide. I would say, easiest for started is Ubuntu. As for agent, it is deployed automatically by the job, you don't have to worry about this.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 09, 2010 9:20 pm

Just wanted to add that as soon as you setup a Linux server, just add it to the backup console in the same way you did it with vCenter Server/ESX(i) host in order to use it as destination target later on.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 7:21 am

thanks for your reply.

i have never installed a linux box before,, and i am a little sad that i have to do so now just bcos i need to use synthetic full,,, i dont have any management tools or anything i could use to support a linux installation, hell dont even know how i make a share to use for veeam as remote store ???
do you guys have any ETA of when the windows "agent" would be ready,, ???

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 10, 2010 9:39 am

Tommi, you may also want to move your backup server to the DR site in order to keep synthetic full construction traffic locally on the remote site.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 9:41 am

yea i have thought about that.. but.. when backup server is at "local" office.. i get the benifit of compression and dedub at the remote site.
if i move the backup server to the "remote" office.. ALL data have to pass the small WAN connection... is that not right ??

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 10, 2010 9:48 am

Yes, that's correct. But with CBT enabled, it might not be so painful as it seems right now. By the way have you considered doing VM backups locally and using rsync to replicate backup files offsite later on?

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 10:15 am

yea i have seriously ben considering Rsync... then again... never used it before,, and it sounds like it runs best on Linux,, thats not my strong side..
allso considering my data changes is so small,, Veeam can handle the backup "pure wan speed" so i dont like the idea setting alot ot other stuff up,, i just need to "ajust" veeam corretly.

soo.. it sounds like my opsions is this....
Reinstall my remote storrage as a linux box and use incremental/full synthetic.
or revert back to (old school) reverse incrememtal backup right ??

cheers
Tommi

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by slidek9 » Nov 10, 2010 10:15 am

OC the trouble is with rSync, if it is half way though rSyncing when disaster strikes, then you lose that data; if this is a reverse incremental you lose the ability to invoke DR - now you can create a copy of your backup before you use rsync via script - but they you add the duration of that copy and the extra size for the duplicate(s) into the equation - neither of which can be a good idea if you need to save space or time.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 10:22 am

thanks for your reply slidek9.. any feedback is apriciated :)

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 10, 2010 11:31 am

Tommi wrote:Reinstall my remote storrage as a linux box and use incremental/full synthetic.
or revert back to (old school) reverse incrememtal backup right ??
Correct, though moving backup server to DR site sounds also reasonable for me.

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 12:19 pm

ok thanks alot for your feedback..
it is really apriciated..

what about import restore job..

what i am trying to do is make a copy of a full backup,,, then copy the full backup file to a removable harddisk..
drive to the remote site and copy the full backup file to the remote backup server.

how can i import this job,,,, i know i can import it to do a restore,,, but cant i import the entire job so i can use it starting with incremental backup in stead of starting with a full one ..

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 10, 2010 12:31 pm

Job management functionality is already scheduled for our future releases, as for now you may move your SQL database with Veeam job configurations to the remote backup server. Should more information be required, please have a look at the link below:
http://www.veeam.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... sql#p19153

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Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Tommi » Nov 10, 2010 12:41 pm

thanks for your ansver,,,
i find it a bit disturbing i cannot restore my backup jobs without resorting to reg edits and database restores,,,,
hope your "job management functions" will be released soon then,, thanks for all your answers,, my reply is not a rant,,, im just surprised veeam lacks this function :)

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Tommi

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Using Rsync to replicate backup files across the WAN

Post by stevil » Mar 14, 2011 2:14 pm

[Merged into existing discussion]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to rsync my backup files across our 2Mbps WAN link. I have a 35GB VBK with ~300MB VIB's created each night.

1. If I use incremental backups the VIB files are rsync'ed across and everything is fine until the first synthetic full, then I have another huge file to copy across the WAN.

2. If I go with reversed incrementals the main VBK file changes file name after each run, this makes rsync delete the target VBK and start over with the 'new' file.

How are you guys managing to use rsync with your backups?

The only solution I see right now is to use reversed incrementals and have a batch script rename the target VBK to match the newly backup up VBK each night before the rsync runs. This way only the changes in the file are copied across the WAN. Other than this I'm looking at DFSR with cross file replication using an enterprise server, which I wanted to avoid using in this case as it consumes large amounts of disk space due to its staging files.

Any help much appreciated, as I'm starting to hit a brick wall :(

Cheers
Steve

Alexey D.

Re: backup using WAN storrage and synthetic full question

Post by Alexey D. » Mar 14, 2011 2:25 pm

Steve, in addition to current topic, you may also refer to this post

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