Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:28 pm

I couldn't agree more with ArkHosp. It boggles my mind that this type of scheduling hasn't been implemented long ago. It's a huge pain for us and seems to be a fairly simple feature to implement. Please, please address this VEEAM :)
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby ArkHosp » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:36 pm

Thanks alanbolte! That's exactly what I needed. It's a little clumsy, but it should allow me to do what I need. After reading about that feature, the one thing to remember will be that this is merely when it's allowed to START, not an availability window for it to run (that's actually buried in the same submenu). That's an important distinction, since if I were to configure it like a window, the darn job would kick off every hour during it (which I guess there might be actual cases where that would be useful too).

For now, I'll set the first job using this hourly/schedule blocking method for the various start times and then just chain the other jobs off that first one. As long as I don't have a failure in the chain, that should work nicely.

As I use this product, I keep finding missing features, but then someone shows me where they are hidden somewhere in the GUI. I'm really glad that these features are in there, but wow, there's a real learning curve. Maybe the management console will become a little easier as the product matures. I'm really happy with it so far.

Guess the next thing I'll be tackling will be trying to figure out how to test the backups. Got about another week of configuring/testing before I get to that point.

Thanks for those who responded to my questions! Seems like a really great forum community.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby foggy » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:23 am

ArkHosp wrote:For now, I'll set the first job using this hourly/schedule blocking method for the various start times and then just chain the other jobs off that first one. As long as I don't have a failure in the chain, that should work nicely.

Just keep in mind that the chained jobs do not respect the schedule specified for their parent, so should have their own backup windows also specified (if required).

Also, we typically do not recommend chaining jobs at all, due to some undesired consequences it incurs.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:43 pm 2 people like this post

I was crossing my fingers that maybe this was coming in v9, but I've found out it's not. At least not in the initial release.

I do realize there are workarounds, but at the same time, the reason I chose VEEAM for our backup product was because it simplified things. The minute scripting is necessary and then task scheduling through the OS vs doing it all within the backup application, it becomes less simple. If I was a backup admin and backups were all I did, this might be ok, but I do everything where I'm at and backups are a sliver of my time each day.

For the first few years we used VEEAM, I had to use Backup Exec for getting our VEEAM backups to tape. I requested the tape feature 100x via our sales rep, the forums and tech support. Everyone told me for those years that there was no demand and tape is dead, as though we were the only place on earth with a tape drive. Then a few versions later, tape was eventually added and I think it blew VEEAM's mind how much tape still has a strong presence in the backup world. I kind of feel like this is the same thing. I know the perception on VEEAM's end is that there isn't much demand for more flexible scheduling, but my own thought is that for every one person taking the time to post about this in the forum, there are hundreds if not thousands that would like to use it, but just accept that it's not there and deal with it. I don't see this as VEEAM being lazy or stubborn at all, but I have to believe they aren't aware of how many people would benefit from this and how anyone coming from Backup Exec or any other previous backup application is confused why this feature isn't part of VEEAM.

Now knowing this feature won't be in v9, I'm giving in and forcing myself to try a workaround. If someone could suggest a detailed way to accomplish the following (which is very similar to others), I would be grateful. I'd appreciate if the response is to use powershell, a detailed response with what the exact script would be and other details about how it works would be. I assume one has to install the VEEAM snap-in for PowerShell? Or is that installed with the product? Would the scheduled task need to be run as the VEEAM service account I assume? There are more details to setting this up than just saying use PowerShell. I wish I was better at scripting, but it's a weak area of mine.

I have 10 jobs. We'll call them JOB1, JOB2, etc.
All jobs will have the same schedule below:
Monday through Friday - Incremental - JOB1 starts at 5PM and the rest are staggered to start at times after 5PM
Saturday - Mostly Synthetic Fulls, Periodic Active Fulls - JOB1 starts at 1AM and the rest are staggered to start at times after 1AM

As I understand, I would need to leave Saturday checked on each job in the VEEAM GUI. This question was asked earlier, but I'm a little confused. When JOB1 starts via PowerShell on Saturday at 1AM, will it also run again at 5PM as scheduled in the VEEAM GUI?

I honestly do appreciate how the VEEAM moderators get to every post in these forums. I always know I can come on here and get help which is something that isn't common with software vendors. Thank you guys for all your hard work and attention you give to these posts.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby Sicey26 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:48 pm

Come on Veeam, why is this still being talked about ? If your customers are actually taking time to tell you a feature is wanted (and have been for a couple of years now) there must be a strong case for it.

Believe me, I love the product but this request and lack of action is one that does get my back up.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:25 pm

Sicey26 wrote:Come on Veeam, why is this still being talked about?

Because this feature has lower priority than other pending features. For example, we have put a lot of work into v9 to remove the very need for doing those periodic full backups to start with ;)

Not having to do Active Fulls at all >>> Ability to schedule one separately
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:44 pm

Gostev, can you elaborate more on how this will work with v9 for those who have a need to use a different schedule on the weekends for their backups? Thank you.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:08 pm

What I am saying is that with v9, you can simply use forever incremental backup, and don't worry about doing periodic full backups at all (and so scheduling them separately). What is your use case for doing periodic full backups?
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:41 pm

In the past, our synthetic backups would take longer and longer over time. I was told by support that to fix this I should do periodic active fulls as doing forever synthetic fulls can cause this issue.

Even with forever incrementals, we'd still need to do weekend synthetic fulls. While the incremental backups to go towards this synthetic full go fast, the creation of the synthetic fulls from the incremental backups take a long time and when they run on our single schedule (limited by the VEEAM GUI) we end up with 5 synthetic fulls being run at one time and it completely overwhelms the I/O of our backup SAN. I wish we had an expensive high end SAN for our backups, but we have a simple HP MSA SAN with 10K drives. If I could do my backups on the scheduling I'd like to do, our SAN would keep up just fine.

My need to create weekly synthetic fulls is because we archive our weekly backups to tape for long term retention.

I think my goal, and the goal of others here, is this (or a close variant). We do incremental backups Monday through Friday late evening or early morning. They go fast so we can schedule them to run closely together, say from 6PM to midnight or 2AM to 6AM. Something like that. We do full backups on Saturday (synthetic usually and active once a month). We want to be able to space out our full backups so that we can start early morning on Saturday or Sunday and space our weekend full backup schedules apart so they can run ALL DAY on a weekend day vs all trying to run between our much shorter weekday schedule. I can easily do my weekend full backups if I start them at 2AM on Saturday and schedule them throughout Saturday morning, afternoon and evening vs them all trying to run in the evening only.

I really do understand that there are so many feature requests and such. I know I don't understand the work or complexity of how the product is developed. So please understand that I say this with that understanding. It "seems" like incorporating the ability to create a different backup schedule for weekend jobs would be a very small feature and take minimal effort to help out a lot of people. I understand that there are other features that you maybe have more requests for and from larger customers, but things like integrating your product with EMC and other vendors has to be a huge effort and cost vs a very small modification to your own product in scheduling. I think people's frustrations in this thread aren't only that multiple schedules aren't available (and are from previous backup applications they've used), but also because it seems like such a simple and low cost, low effort feature to incorporate. Again, I certainly don't claim to know this is the case, but it's just a perception from a customer point of view.

I love this forum and I use it extensively because it really helps me. I'm sure though that only a tiny percentage of VEEAM customers actually make the effort to be involved in these forums. I can assure VEEAM that this feature request is so much larger than the handful on people in this thread. I guarantee that most people coming from a different backup software to VEEAM wonder how this feature isn't there. To be honest, I don't even consider it something that should be a "feature". It should be the most basic part of the product. I have used an enormous number of backup application in my 15 years of IT and this is the only backup application that I've not been able to set different schedules in.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:06 pm

cffit wrote:My need to create weekly synthetic fulls is because we archive our weekly backups to tape for long term retention.

In that case, you don't need synthetic fulls at all - as starting with v8, Backup to Tape job is able to synthesize full backup file on-the-fly from a forever incremental chain... it does not have to physically exist on disk.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:10 pm

I need the fulls on tape and disk per our data retention policy. I appreciate the info and suggestion, but I hope what I wrote above makes sense and explains what others are hoping to accomplish too.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:03 pm

Can you please explain why your data retention policy requires to have fulls on the disk? Just for my understanding, as you may not need those either with v9.
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:55 pm

cffit wrote:While the incremental backups to go towards this synthetic full go fast, the creation of the synthetic fulls from the incremental backups take a long time and when they run on our single schedule (limited by the VEEAM GUI) we end up with 5 synthetic fulls being run at one time and it completely overwhelms the I/O of our backup SAN.

Haven't you considered limiting the number of concurrent tasks that can be assigned to repository?
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby cffit » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:04 pm 6 people like this post

FOR PEOPLE ON HERE WANTING TO SETUP DIFFERENT SCHEDULES FOR WEEKENDS VS WEEKDAYS, HERE'S HOW I DID IT WITHOUT TOO MUCH PAIN:

It takes some time to setup, but after that it should work ongoing with minimal effort. However, I'm still frustrated this isn't in the GUI as things that run as scripts and scheduled tasks tend to get forgotten about when changes are made.

VEEAM B&R installs the VEEAM PowerShell snap-in so you don't have to do anything to get that. You can access it by going into the B&R software and clicking on the blue box with the dropdown arrow in the top left and choosing PowerShell.

I used the service account for VEEAM B&R to create the scheduled tasks and run the PowerShell scripts. For me, this account is a local admin on the server. If yours isn't, you might have to adjust as necessary.

I created two text files named something like "WeekdayScheduleChange.txt" and "WeekendScheduleChange.txt". I then edited them to read like this..

The WeekdayScheduleChange.txt file looks like this:

Code: Select all
Add-PSSnapin VeeamPSSnapin
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job01" -At "17:00" -Daily -DailyKind Weekdays
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job02" -At "17:15" -Daily -DailyKind Weekdays
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job03" -At "17:30" -Daily -DailyKind Weekdays
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job04" -At "18:00" -Daily -DailyKind Weekdays



The WekendScheduleChange.txt file looks like this:

Code: Select all
Add-PSSnapin VeeamPSSnapin
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job01" -At "4:00" -Daily -DailyKind SelectedDays -Days Saturday
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job02" -At "6:30" -Daily -DailyKind SelectedDays -Days Saturday
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job03" -At "10:00" -Daily -DailyKind SelectedDays -Days Saturday
Set-VBRJobSchedule -Job "Exact_Name_of_Backup_Job04" -At "14:00" -Daily -DailyKind SelectedDays -Days Saturday


Obviously change the name of the backup jobs to what yours are named, exactly. Rename both files from .txt to .ps1

Setup two scheduled tasks, one to run each one of these files. I run the WeekendScheduleChange.ps1 script at 2AM Saturday morning and the WeekdayScheduleChange.ps1 script at noon on Monday.

In order to setup scheduled tasks to run PowerShell scripts there are a few ways to do this. I set the task to run as the VEEAM service account (which is a local admin). I set it to run whether logged in or not and to use highest privileges and also configure for the version of Windows I'm using. The trigger is the schedule which I mention a few lines above. For the Action, I find it's easiest to create a new action of "Start a program" and then for Program/script I enter "powershell" (without quotes) and then under "Add arguments" I enter "-file C:\PathToScript\WeekendScheduleChange.ps1" (again without the quotes). If your path has spaces in it you will need to put quotes around the path only like -file "C:\PathToScript\WeekendScheduleChange.ps1". That's all I set. Enter the password for the account you are using for the task and you are good. I then tested by right clicking the task and running it.

Doing this will in essence just change the job schedule within the job. All the other parts of the job will remain the same such as whatever day you set for the full backup and methods. It only changes the checkmarks/time on the scheduling section. This way you can still have all your options set in the GUI and ONLY change when the job runs. I didn't want to have to specify all the job options via PowerShell as I'm not super great with PowerShell and the VEEAM syntax added in makes it even more of a challenge for me.

Hope this makes sense and helps some people out. When I realized v9 wasn't going to resolve this for me, I decided to put the time into figuring out how to do it with PowerShell.

Thanks to Tom and Vladimir from VEEAM for helping me with the syntax of PowerShell. Good luck everyone!
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Re: Different schedule for incr vs full disk backups

Veeam Logoby kte » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:52 pm

if the sheduler in gui could allow this it would be alot better, select on the sheduler if it is a incremental or an active full or a synthetic full,....
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