Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only SAN?

Availability for the Always-On Enterprise

Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only SAN?

Veeam Logoby Robert Grawe » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:13 pm 1 person likes this post

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am unfortunately disappointed by Veeam. We use 10G LAN and the NetApp Datastores are mounted to the ESX servers via NFS. Until the update to version 9.5 I have used the feature "Backup from Storage Snapshot" and after the update it has not worked anymore. I have opened a ticket and now it has come out that the implementation of the feature was incorrect and has now been corrected.

Statement Veeam: Backup from Storage Snapshot is supported only on Direct SAN. This is perhaps okay but Veeam should then please point out! I have looked at your homepage and I find there is no indication the Feautre "Backup from Storage Snapshots" only with Direct SAN goes. Or I overlook this?

https://www.veeam.com/de/backup-from-st ... shots.html
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95

Veeam should point it out! You should also include this as a feature request.

The Veeam Case Number is 02027411! Do not misunderstand. The colleague from the support was very nice but I find that of veeam not in order. It is not clear that this feature works only with direct SAN. Of course, I would like to teach me, too, if I have not seen it.

Regards,
Robert Grawe
Robert Grawe
Novice
 
Posts: 4
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:39 am
Full Name: Robert Grawe

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby tdewin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:39 pm

Just to clarify, cause I cant read the complete case (my german is non-existing). Are you using NFS or NBD (because there is a hugh difference between both). The call states NBD as reading mechanism, which basically means we read the data through the ESXi hosts. If it is NBD, support is correct. But from your forum post, you mention NFS which is supported in BfSS. Notice that the proxy need to be able to read the data so they must be able to reach the Netapp via the same network as the ESXi host. In this case we will use our direct NFS client.

If you intended to use NFS, please reply to support that there is a misunderstanding
tdewin
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 1106
Liked: 389 times
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:40 pm
Full Name: Timothy Dewin

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Robert Grawe » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:20 pm

Hello, the NetApp Datastores are attached to the ESX hosts via NFS. The proxy has 2x 10G LAN and is in the same VLAN as Storage and ESX. The transport mode of the "Backup Proxy" is set to Network. Before the update to 9.5 it worked wonderfully with the same configuration. Is difficult to describe in the forum. The ticket is a bit longer.

For me the question is.

- ESX Host (vmware) = 2x10G LAN
- Storage (NetAPP) = 2x10G LAN
- Veeam Proxy (Windows) 2x10G LAN
- Repository (NetApp eSeries) 2 x 16G FC connected to Veeam Proxy
- We do not use a SAN or FiberChannel. The only FiberChannel connection is between NetApp eSeries (Repository) and Veeam Backup Proxy.

Could I use the "Backup from Storage Snapshot" feature? It has also worked in the constellation until the update to 9.5.

Regards,
Robert
Robert Grawe
Novice
 
Posts: 4
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:39 am
Full Name: Robert Grawe

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby tdewin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Yes it can be done but not via NBD/Network mode. Backup from storage snapshots requires that the proxy can access the datastore directly from the storage device (or rather the snapshot that is been made). In the case of FC or iSCSI this would be block level access to the storage device (mostly zoning), in the case of NFS, we require the proxy to be able to access the Netapp so it can mount NFS share. We have a build in NFS client in the proxy to do that.

The difference between NBD and NFS is that NBD passes via the ESXi host, but NFS reads the data directly from the storage device
NBD : Proxy -> ESXi VMKernel port (via NBD protocol) -> VMKernel Read -> Netapp
NFS : Proxy -> Netapp
They of course both go over an IPv4 network but NFS is a Direct NFS client. Again if you want to use BfSS, only the NFS method is possible. If this is what you want, please allow support to guide you in setting up BfSS but refer to NFS access instead of NBD/Network access. But you can clearly see that it is also the most efficient way to read the data as you by-pass the whole ESXi stack during backup
tdewin
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 1106
Liked: 389 times
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:40 pm
Full Name: Timothy Dewin

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby tsightler » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:01 pm 1 person likes this post

Robert Grawe wrote:The transport mode of the "Backup Proxy" is set to Network.

I believe this simple setting is your problem. In versions prior to 9.5 the Backup from Storage Snapshot via Direct NFS would work even if the proxy itself was specifically configured for Network mode. This technically incorrect behavior since Network mode is specifically telling the proxy to use NBD (Network Block Device) rather than read the data direct storage. I can see where this terminology might cause some confusion, since NFS also uses the network, but in VMware terms, Network mode means to use NBD as the transport mode to retrieve the data, and this mode cannot support BfSS.

I believe if you simply set your proxy to Automatic mode, things will work properly for you again. Certainly it is totally possible to use Backup from Storage Snapshot with Netapp NFS in VBR 9.5.
tsightler
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 4872
Liked: 1819 times
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:57 pm
Full Name: Tom Sightler

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:52 am

Robert Grawe wrote:Statement Veeam: Backup from Storage Snapshot is supported only on Direct SAN.

This statement is incorrect, we supported backup from NetApp and EMC VNX storage snapshots via Direct NFS since v8.
Gostev
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 21603
Liked: 2405 times
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Deon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:14 am 2 people like this post

tsightler wrote:I believe this simple setting is your problem. In versions prior to 9.5 the Backup from Storage Snapshot via Direct NFS would work even if the proxy itself was specifically configured for Network mode. This technically incorrect behavior since Network mode is specifically telling the proxy to use NBD (Network Block Device) rather than read the data direct storage. I can see where this terminology might cause some confusion, since NFS also uses the network, but in VMware terms, Network mode means to use NBD as the transport mode to retrieve the data, and this mode cannot support BfSS.

I believe if you simply set your proxy to Automatic mode, things will work properly for you again. Certainly it is totally possible to use Backup from Storage Snapshot with Netapp NFS in VBR 9.5.


This. Quite a few people ran into this, because the proxy logic was reworked and became "more logical" (since NBD really cannot be used for BfSS as mentioned above).

Technically it is said here:
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... tml?ver=95

You have to either use iSCSI/FC or NFS for direct access to the storage.

If you think this information is not too obvious, you are welcome to send feedback to the tech writers team via the "Send Feedback" hyperlink at the bottom of the page. You could ask that it would be clarified with an info box or something that BoFSS is working for Direct access proxy setting only.
Deon
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 24
Liked: 8 times
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:02 pm
Full Name: Denis Churaev

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:01 am 1 person likes this post

There is a excellent document written by our Alliance SEs that show all needed steps and configuration best practices:
https://www.veeam.com/wp-netapp-configuration-best-practices-guide.html
Andreas Neufert
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 2288
Liked: 382 times
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:36 am
Location: Germany
Full Name: @AndyandtheVMs Veeam PM

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Delo123 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:11 am 1 person likes this post

I always wonder why partners implementing these solutions do not help the customers to do the initial setup. The added value should be exactly here...
Delo123
Expert
 
Posts: 355
Liked: 102 times
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:20 pm
Full Name: Guido Meijers

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby thomas.biesmans » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:30 pm 1 person likes this post

As a partner 95% of our installations are performed by our engineers, including a workshop with on-site training. But sometimes customers do not want to pay for this added value / cost and perhaps competitors charge only one day for an installation :)

Last week I had a client who was dissatisfied with Veeam: he'd done the install himself and the write speed was 'bad'! Turns out he routed his backup traffic on a 1GbE connection (although he has a 10GbE backup network), plus he had very good dedup & compression ratios, therefore big reads in (on-host Hyper-V), small writes out (if you share 100MiB/s with 4 jobs you get 25MiB/s each). Just a small re-configuration and teaching him how to interpret the results was enough.

This week's client actually said the following after the workshop: "Wow, I thought you guys screwed us and planned way too many days for the configuration, but now that I see what Veeam can do, I totally get it".

You can break anything with a bad design!
thomas.biesmans
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Liked: 1 time
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:35 am

Re: Disappointed! Update 9.5 "Backup Storage Snapshot" only

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:44 pm 1 person likes this post

thomas.biesmans wrote:You can break anything with a bad design!

Ditto. Ferrari "just works" on most public roads, but still requires common sense and some basic "deployment planning" in rural areas ;)
Gostev
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 21603
Liked: 2405 times
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland


Return to Veeam Backup & Replication



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests