GFS for primary backup jobs

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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby toon.v10 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:55 am 1 person likes this post

For our small business customers the biggest problem with GFS is that it always creates a full backup file. If the want to store several weekly, monthly and yearly backups they need lots of data. And they don't have the budget for a dedup appliance.
Now we solve it by creating different (forever forward incremental) backup jobs with the same VM's and schedule one Job daily, one weekly, another monthly, ... But that's not the ideal solution. I hope GFS will be adjusted so it can also works with incremental backups.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:58 am

Since it's small business with relatively small backup files (supposedly), haven't you thought about stuffing a server with bunch directly attached disks and use Windows 2012 R2 Deduplication? Thanks.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:35 am

toon.v10 wrote:For our small business customers the biggest problem with GFS is that it always creates a full backup file. If the want to store several weekly, monthly and yearly backups they need lots of data. And they don't have the budget for a dedup appliance.
Now we solve it by creating different (forever forward incremental) backup jobs with the same VM's and schedule one Job daily, one weekly, another monthly, ... But that's not the ideal solution. I hope GFS will be adjusted so it can also works with incremental backups.

There is not much sense having jobs to run on quarterly or weekly basis withlong incremental chain since there will be lots of changes over quarter/month period and size of incremental files will be much bigger than if you run backups daily.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby toon.v10 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:18 pm

v.Eremin wrote:Since it's small business with relatively small backup files (supposedly), haven't you thought about stuffing a server with bunch directly attached disks and use Windows 2012 R2 Deduplication? Thanks.


Hi, we do that for some customers and it is indeed a great and affordable solution, but in Belgium many small businesses are really 'small' and don't want to invest in a separate server. They just use a nas as repository.

Shestakov wrote:There is not much sense having jobs to run on quarterly or weekly basis withlong incremental chain since there will be lots of changes over quarter/month period and size of incremental files will be much bigger than if you run backups daily.


Ok, if i need a rentention of 3 months or so i can cover it with 90 daily backups, but if they want for instance 14 daily, 12 weekly, 12 monthly backups, it's difficult to create that with one job. Backup Copy Jobs with GFS works great for that scenario but for customers that doesn't have a dedup solution, it just takes a lot of space.

For me Veeam is the greatest backup solution i've ever used and it would be even greater if i could have a GFS retention without the need of storing many full backups.

Thanks for you answers!
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:36 am

Hi, we do that for some customers and it is indeed a great and affordable solution, but in Belgium many small businesses are really 'small' and don't want to invest in a separate server.

It should not necessarily be a brand new server, some decommissioned one stuffed with bunch of disks would be also a great choice.

Though, I get what you're trying to say.

Thanks for sharing your feedback.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:31 am

toon.v10 wrote:Ok, if i need a rentention of 3 months or so i can cover it with 90 daily backups, but if they want for instance 14 daily, 12 weekly, 12 monthly backups, it's difficult to create that with one job. Backup Copy Jobs with GFS works great for that scenario but for customers that doesn't have a dedup solution, it just takes a lot of space.

That makes sense. Note that if you schedule backup copy GFS job to run say weekly on Sunday and monthly on the last Sunday, you will have less job runs and less backup files. Same backup will be marked as "weekly" and "monthly" and let you save repository space.
Nevertheless, your request about GFS in primary backup jobs is taken into account.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby mma » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:29 pm

+1 feature request.

I understand the point "And yes, at the same time this also helps to protect inexperienced backup admins from sticking with a single copy of backups."
But whats about the experienced ones with an need of it? :-)
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:21 pm

Marcel,
Request from experienced admins is even more than +1 :)
Thanks for it!
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[MERGED] Feature Request - GFS to local backups...

Veeam Logoby jlehman1 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:39 pm

The hardest thing for me coming off traditional backup software, like backup exec; was how to configure GFS.
I've been working w/ Veeam support for 2 weeks (testing time included here) on how to setup my backups.
There is no easy solution. I had to create 3 separate jobs for my daily, weekly, & monthly retention; per support.
It just seems like this should have been put in the original version of Veeam to me, I was shocked that it is this difficult.
I was told by Veeam support to make the feature request to "add GFS to local backups." So here I am.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:35 am

Thanks for the request, Jason. You can find some argumentation in the thread above.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby mkaec » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:37 pm

My hopes for this being included in 9.5 are fading away...
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:40 pm

Right, v9.5 will not address this request.
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby newfirewallman » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:53 am

Come on VEEAM! Please include it at some point? I'm tired of scripting it or manually copying vbk's. Your method isn't efficient from SPACE or Disk IO
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[MERGED] GFS for regular Disk-Backup-Jobs

Veeam Logoby A. Werner » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:56 am 1 person likes this post

Hey there,

it would be a great advantage, when GFS-options (like in Disk-Copy-Jobs) would be availeable also in disk-Backup-jobs. Actually we write our disk backups in a DataDomain (DD2500) with good performance. In a second step we read the data from this DD2500 (very slowely) just to backup them again with GFS-settings in a backup-copy-job. The Idea is, to have weekly, monthly or older backups direkt on disk instead on tape.

best regards

André
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Re: GFS for primary backup jobs

Veeam Logoby EricJ » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:53 pm

New Veeam customer here...

So is this just plain not going to be considered as a feature request? I keep seeing "you should keep two or more copies of your data anyway", but I don't see how that is relevant to making primary copies more efficient.

I'll give an example scenario, and maybe someone could explain the best solution.

Production Data lives at location A. 50TB disk array at location B. Tape library at location C.

We'd like to keep 30 days of backups, 4 weekly, 12 monthly, and 3 yearly. My only option for my primary job @ location B is for the 30 days of backups, correct? I have no way to tell it to retain weekly, monthly, yearly backups here? I'd love to be able to do that, since I don't want to only have those on tape. I'd love to have them on disk as well, both for restore speed and extra redundancy. Why am I being prevented from doing that? How is that in the best interest of protecting me from myself?

I've seen the advice to create a separate folder on the disk array at location B and do GFS copies to that. This works, but is a total waste of space because it doesn't appear to utilize the REFS 3.1 fast clone capability like it does for Synthetic Fulls.

So my choices appear to be:

1. Find enough disk space at location A to create a minimal (7 day) primary backup so that location B can finally have GFS copies. (Total waste of space and bandwidth)
2. Do GFS copies on the disk array at location B (requires infinitely more space, since REFS fast clone is not being used)
3. Only have GFS copies live on tape at location C (much slower restore speed and limits me to only one copy of GFS)

Is there a better solution that I'm not seeing?

Thanks!

- Eric
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