No Catalyst Copy support?

Availability for the Always-On Enterprise

Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby SyNtAxx » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:45 pm

pbu wrote:So what is the big benefit we get with Catalyst Support of Veeam B&R 9??
We can use the Catalyst Store instead of CIFS or NFS shares for a primary Repository

But Catalyst Stores can not Replicate like CIFS or NFS Stores


Exactly, what is the benefit....not much except a nice talking point.

What i've done is set up backup to SAN location --> copy to SO 6500 (CIFS Mode) --> Hw Replicate --> remote SO 6500.

-Nick
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby millardjk » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:55 pm

Theoretically, the Catalyst I/O performance is higher than using SMB (would everyone just *quit* calling it CIFS!?!), especially when used in conjunction with per-VM file chains.
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby SyNtAxx » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:14 pm

It might very well be, I am using the per vm chains now which is fantastic btw! I am seeing about 800MB/sec when sending data to the SMB Store Once Shares as viewed from the target SO. I am running a single giant proxy server with 20gbps LACP. when I have multiple copy jobs running I can get about 80% of the pipe full, so I can probably stand to adjust the number of repo streams a bit higher.

I do believe in the product and the value it brings, despite some of my complaints. :)
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby tsightler » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:12 pm 1 person likes this post

Weekly synthetic fulls can be a big benefit with Catalyst, no more requirement to run active fulls to the StoreOnce all the time can be huge and you can use BCJ with per-VM chains. Based on your setup you can use the same server to talk Catalyst to the local StoreOnce to read the data, and talk Catalyst to the remote StoreOnce to write the data, so you're still technically talking Catalyst on both sides. Do this with per-VM and you get parallel BCJ with local Catalyst and Catalyst across the wire. Still not as efficient as Catalyst Copy, but can be quite workable in many situations.
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:52 pm

Yes, I would say the biggest benefit of Catalyst is instant synthetic full backup creation and transformation (instead of physically moving data within StoreOnce, we just set or update references to the exiting data blocks). Results in 10 or more times faster processing for those operations, and solves the biggest support issue StoreOnce users have experienced.

Additionally, when you do Catalyst over WAN to a low bandwidth mode Catalyst store, you will also save bandwidth due to advanced source-side dedupe by Catalyst.

And Jim is correct, generally better performance and reliability over SMB protocol (I don't know if it is still the case, but StoreOnce used to leverage a terribly outdated SMB server version).
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby millardjk » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:55 pm

tsightler wrote:Based on your setup you can use the same server to talk Catalyst to the local StoreOnce to read the data, and talk Catalyst to the remote StoreOnce to write the data, so you're still technically talking Catalyst on both sides. Do this with per-VM and you get parallel BCJ with local Catalyst and Catalyst across the wire. Still not as efficient as Catalyst Copy, but can be quite workable in many situations.


Interesting architecture (Catalyst->LAN->Proxy->WAN->Catalyst) to "keep it talking Catalyst", but what if you have another proxy in play because you're also using the second StoreOnce for local backups (Catalyst->LAN->ProxyA->WAN->ProxyB->LAN->Catalyst)? Does Veeam recognize that the ultimate source & target are both StoreOnce Catalyst Stores and still "keep it talking Catalyst"? If so, does it still make sense to use WAN Accel for connections <100Mbps (when permitted by license & infrastructure)?

In my design, we have a StoreOnce in each of two locations for local backups, and we're doing copy jobs from each local to the respective remote StoreOnce. Small jobs have been working well, but bigger ones are...troublesome, especially when we also try to use WAN Acceleration to beef up the efficiency of the 20Mbps WAN.
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby haslund » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:28 pm

SyNtAxx wrote:Yeah, I tested Catalyst integration and v9 backup copy. Its not doable for an enterprise with thousands of vms, especially since it copies one single vm at a time. Fail. The best I can do is use file share level access for the StoreOnce units with per vm chains to keep file sizes in check and allow the hw to do the work un-hydrated as intended.


Hi Nick,

Since v9 you have the option of using Parallel Processing in Backup Copy Jobs to avoid copying a single VM at a time.

• Backup copy parallel processing. With v9, backup copy jobs will now process multiple VMs in
parallel, just like primary backup jobs. This improves the backup copy and retention processing
performance due to removing “dead time” between each VM, and will further speed up processing
when per-VM backup file chains are enabled on the target backup repository


See https://www.veeam.com/veeam_backup_9_0_whats_new_en_wn.pdf for all the other new awesome new features and enhancements.
Rasmus Haslund
Principal Technologist, Global Education Services @ Veeam Software
Veeam Certified Architect #1 | Veeam Certified Trainer #4 [v7,v8,v9] | Veeam Certified Trainer Mentor #1
Twitter: @haslund
Blog: www.perfectcloud.org
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby foggy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:54 pm

millardjk wrote:Interesting architecture (Catalyst->LAN->Proxy->WAN->Catalyst) to "keep it talking Catalyst", but what if you have another proxy in play because you're also using the second StoreOnce for local backups (Catalyst->LAN->ProxyA->WAN->ProxyB->LAN->Catalyst)?

Gateway server is specified per repository, so you could add the same store as a separate repository for remote office and assign ProxyA to be the gateway for it.
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby millardjk » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:38 pm

rhaslund wrote:Since v9 you have the option of using Parallel Processing in Backup Copy Jobs to avoid copying a single VM at a time.

• Backup copy parallel processing. With v9, backup copy jobs will now process multiple VMs in
parallel, just like primary backup jobs. This improves the backup copy and retention processing
performance due to removing “dead time” between each VM, and will further speed up processing
when per-VM backup file chains are enabled on the target backup repository


See https://www.veeam.com/veeam_backup_9_0_whats_new_en_wn.pdf for all the other new awesome new features and enhancements.


Awesome stuff; unfortunately the training materials for VMCE9 explicitly states that BCJs don't support parallel processing (module 4: deployment. Enabling parallel processing).

It may be supported in truth, but if you get asked about it on the exam, I hope the "correct" answer isn't based on the training material.
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:38 am

Review of Catalyst benefits (in German, but mostly graphs and numbers)
https://mycloudrevolution.wordpress.com ... -catalyst/
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby Markus.K1985 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:29 pm

Thanks for sharing Gostev!
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:27 pm 1 person likes this post

Nice, the author himself :D Thanks to YOU!
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby Markus.K1985 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:54 pm

Also a must Read for Catalyst Users:

Veeam with HPE StoreOnce Catalyst Configuration Guide
https://www.veeam.com/wp-hpe-storeonce- ... guide.html
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby johna8 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:27 am

We have 3540 setup for catalyst and Veeam at each local site.
Writes are fine, however backup copy jobs seem to run on average around 14 MB/sec.
We are having to throttle the network - however from other experiences can you achieve a decent read MB/sec?

Our issue is our rate of change, given we are trickling the data via off-site - Veeam just can't get up due to the slow reads.
I might have to look at perhaps StoreOnce replication over Veeam backup copies.

The other alternative is using faster storage for the landing zone to allow faster read/writes for a shorter period - rather than having the StoreOnce and backup jobs continuously trying to read the data.

From the German article it seems that the reads were quite high for the copy job?
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Re: No Catalyst Copy support?

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:22 am

Just to confirm, do you see source reported as the bottleneck for the copy job? What StoreOnce firmware version do you have?
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