Offsite Backup Copy jobs in Ver 12

[NotoriousBr]

Is the functionality to choose backup copies as source for backup copy implemented in the new version 12.1.1.56?

[Gostev]

I've already answered this just a few posts earlier:

No, it was eventually postponed from 12.1 due to issues found in the initial testing and considering the remaining time to 12.1 release (not enough to stabilize). So the code is there in 12.1 but the feature is disabled. The idea now is to come back to this post-12.1 and enable the functionality in one of the 12.1 patches, when QA is comfortable that it's ready for production use.

[NotoriousBr]

No, it was eventually postponed from 12.1 due to issues found in the initial testing and considering the remaining time to 12.1 release (not enough to stabilize). So the code is there in 12.1 but the feature is disabled. The idea now is to come back to this post-12.1 and enable the functionality in one of the 12.1 patches, when QA is comfortable that it's ready for production use.

The version 12.1.1.56 that came out 16. January 2024 is a post-12.1 patch at the time of the quote there was version 12.1.0.2131. The quote literally says "come back to this post-12.1 and enable the functionality in one of the 12.1 patches". Version 12.1.1.56 is a 12.1 patch or am I missing something here?

[Gostev]

You're not missing anything.

You asked if the functionality is implemented in 12.1.1.56, so this was the specific question I was answering. As explained in the quoted text, this functionality is indeed implemented in 12.1, including in the original build 12.1.0.2131. We just need a QA sign off before it can be enabled (via a registry key) and officially supported.

Perhaps I misunderstood your question and what you were really asking is whether the feature was finally enabled in 12.1.1.56? Then the answer is no. The Release Notes is always the ultimate source of truth for questions like that.

[enigma361]

Hello Gostev, thank you for letting us know that this functionality will come back. We could also make good use of it.

[oskarb]

Recent wave of Russian attacks on IT infrastructure... figured I finally should get around to adding a third (air-gapped) copy by copying the online backup copy to a second set of rotated disks. Imagine my disappointment when I realised this is not possible.

Copying a second time from the primary backup is not an option as that is stored in the datacenter where no one can rotate the disks, and the WAN link is not sufficient to pull the data twice!

I do hope Veeam considers it a very high priority to fix this, it seems like a big limitation for a fairly common scenario? (I.e. your primary site is a high quality datacenter with no staff on site and then you pull a copy to the main office where there is staff but no space for a real datacenter, but you can fit a storage node somewhere...)

[DavidAno]

Hello,

I am trying to setup a 3 stage backup solution and need your help. High level overview, we have 3 production facilities, a DR site at a Colocation Data center, and a cloud repository.

Stage 1 - Backup from VMware host to local NAS backup storage

Stage 2 - Copy backups from all 3 production repositories to DR site repository over IPSec tunnel

Stage 3 - Copy backups from DR site to cloud repository


Stage 1 & 2 are working fine, but I can not find any way to make stage 3 work. All of the backup images have copied to the DR site and are stored on the Repository, but i cant select them as the source for backup copy job to the cloud repository.

I want the source to be the DR site in order to limit the internet utilization at the 3 production facilities.

Any guidance on how i could make this work would be appreciated!

[Mildur]

Hi David

Copy from backup copy is currently not available (v12/v12.1). You need to wait for an upcoming patch which will enable this functionality again.
Please see the previous comments from my colleagues in this topic for more information.

Best,
Fabian

[DavidAno]

Hi David

Copy from backup copy is currently not available (v12/v12.1). You need to wait for an upcoming patch which will enable this functionality again.
Please see the previous comments from my colleagues in this topic for more information.

Best,
Fabian

Thanks for linking me to the existing thread Fabian. Hopefully this change gets released by the QA team soon!

[HannesK]

Hello,
backup copy jobs from backup copy jobs are now possible with the latest 12.1 version (12.1.1.56) and the functionality can be enabled via a registry key.

Steps to do
1. On the backup server: add the the BackupCopyEnableBackupCopyAsSource=1 (DWORD 32bit) registry key to "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Veeam\Veeam Backup and Replication"
2. Restart the VBR console. After that, you see backup copy jobs as source in the "From jobs..." section



Things you need to know
a. the source backup copy job must be in "Per-Machine with Separate Metadata Files" mode, aka "true per-VM chains mode"
b. legacy backup copy jobs must be upgraded before being available as source for "BCJ from BCJ"
c. the copy chain can be extended by one level (same as in V11). One cannot do "BCJ from BCJ from BCJ"
d. source repository (backup job or copy job) must be different than the target repository (to avoid a "circle of death")
e. BCJ from BCJ has lower priority (task slots & locking) than the "primary backup copy job"
f. "mapping" as upgrade method does not work
g. existing BCJ from BCJ continue working after upgrade from V11 to any V12 version. That means you can migrate "step by step"


unsupported for now
- VCC as source
- VCC as target
- Repository with rotated drives as source
- Repository with rotated drives as target
- Agent copy jobs as source
- Legacy jobs as source
- Exclusions
- Adding backup copy job to BCJ from BCJ in the "secondary destination" wizard step
- Log backups processing is not supported when Backup Copy job is used as a source

future
- we plan to have that option directly available in 12.1.2 so that the reg key is not needed anymore by then

Best regards,
Hannes

[netyard]

Thanks a lot for bringing this functionality back!
We have used it in the past and now tried to bring it back.
However, we are not able to set a destination repository that is backed by rotated drives.
Will this be added in a future release?

Thanks,
Mark

[Mildur]

Hi Mark

Support for repositories with rotated drives is currently not planned.
I added the limitation to Hannes comment.

Thanks.
Fabian

[LittleBonsai]

Hi Hannes,

I have tried to activate the BCJ via the BCJ (with the registry) without success. I can still only select a job or a repository as the source.

Best regards,
Benny

[Mildur]

Hello Benny

Welcome to the forum.
Just to be sure:
- your backup server is on version 12.1 (v12.1.1.56)
- you made sure that the backup copy job is not listed under "from jobs ..."?
- And you don't face one of the listed limitations?

If you can confirm all three requirements, then please open a case with our customer support team to investigate.

Best,
Fabian

[NotoriousBr]

I have a Backup Copy Job with VMs and Windows Agent Backups. When using Backup Copy from Backup Copy (with 12.1.1.56 and registry key) it only transfers the VMs Snapshot Backups and NOT the agent backups. I know under limitations it says "Agent copy jobs as source" not supported. Is there a workaround to copy Agent Copy jobs? or can I expect this to be supported with 12.1.2?

We have waited a long time for the backup copy from backup copy job functionality to come back only for it to still have limitations for us...

[HannesK]

Hello,
The goal for 12.1.2 is bringing back the V11 functionality. Agents could not be copied from copies in V11, which means it's also not supported in 12.1.2. We have agents on our list for improvements (no timeline)

Best regards,
Hannes

[NotoriousBr]

So There is no workaround... Basically your software is not capable of copying .vib/.vbk files from one place to another. Got it, thanks.

[nortech-harry]

> Support for repositories with rotated drives is currently not planned.

That's the nail in the coffin.

We've waited 1 year for this to be fixed. Time to move on and find another product.

[Neturius]

> Support for repositories with rotated drives is currently not planned.

Oh no. You can't be serious. Rotated drives are always the last repository in our backup chains. Nothing is as secure as a offline drive in a vault. Since nobody can change drives in a data center we use copy jobs to transfer the backups to a repository in our head quarter over night. From there another copy job transfers the data to rotated drives. This worked perfectly with V11 for years. Now after waiting for so long staying on V11 you put another show stopper in place? Why?

Regards,
Peter

[BackupSlacker]

seems like this does not work with Workstation backup copy jobs? Is that true and is there a plan for those to work too?

[Dima P.]

Hello guys,

1. Backup copy from backup copy jobs for agent backups never existed before. We understand the demand for such functionality, so for sure we will add it in one of the upcoming releases. For now you can you backup copy job from regular agent backup i.e. one primary agent job > multiple backup copy jobs with agent job as a source to different repositories.

2. Regarding the rotated drives support. Can you please share your usage scenario i.e. rotated drive will be the source repository or target repository (or both)? How you are going to rotate those? Just to make sure we are all on the same page - backup copy from primary agent backup to a rotated drive is supported today. Fabian was referring only to backup copy from backup copy scenario.

Thank you!

[Neturius]

We use rotated drives just as target. The reason why we need to copy from another copy job to the rotated drives is that the job runs on another location than the original backup. Using the backup as source would mean to transfer the data via internet twice, which makes no sense and the rotated drives are to slow to direcly process the data anyway. As mentioned before, we use rotated drives as a last resort. Since any numer of drives can be used and stored offline on different locations this is the ultimate secure solution and works well with the large drives available nowadays.

Regards,
Peter

[squebel]

So, if we require copies of the backups in multiple offsite location from the local backup, we have to set up 2 copy jobs where each of those is pointed to the original backup? This is the only option at this time?

[Mildur]

No, a second option is to copy from a backup copy chain.
Please see Hannes comment in this topic:
post513249.html#p513249

Best,
Fabian

[squebel]

Thanks, Fabian! This is a good stop gap. A lot of "gotchas" listed but at least there is an option now. I still hope to be able to point a BCJ to an infrastructure item (vm) like we used to be able to do as well.

[gregom]

We have four sites throughout the state in different geographic locations. We have a WAN connection between each other but it takes several days to do a full backup over this connection. So we have backup copy jobs that do incremental backups nightly to one of these sites where we have our backup server. We do have a repository at each site, but we also have a copy of those backups on our backup server. In version 11, we had a backup copy job that copied these VM's to a group of rotated single hard disk drives on a weekly basis. In the old version we were able to choose the source repository, so it would pull the backups from the local copy rather than going over the WAN. Now, that option is gone in v12 and there is no way for us to do this anymore.

We can't be the only ones needing this feature... and it shouldn't have been removed in the first place. I'd like to see it added back in or even better job options to achieve this goal added in new versions.

[nortech-harry]

> 2. Regarding the rotated drives support. Can you please share your usage scenario i.e. rotated drive will be the source repository or target repository (or both)? How you are going to rotate those? Just to make sure we are all on the same page - backup copy from primary agent backup to a rotated drive is supported today. Fabian was referring only to backup copy from backup copy scenario.

1. Backups run in the datacenter to the datacenter local Veeam repository
2. Backup copy job copies these backups from the datacenter to an off-site repository
3. Backup copy job copies these backup copies from the off-site repository to 3 rotated external HDDs - airgap

How else do you do "airgap" (not "immutable" - specifically - "airgap") without rotated external media? Without rotating the media, you do not have true air-gap, you have a repository that is sometimes connected, and the attackers can just wait until it is connected before triggering ransomware.

The only way we can do this now, is to convert #3 in the list above to a backup copy that uses the #1 repository as the source - now we are pulling over the WAN twice and our bandwidth doesn't give us time to do it twice in the backup window.