Physical Server Backup

Availability for the Always-On Enterprise

Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:43 pm

JoshRountree wrote:What you pay to license your entire virtual infrastructure for a single server (due to licensing costs) might buy you 2 servers (production + DR) and all the equipment needed to back them up.

You mean VMware? Because Hyper-V is completely free (with no limitations on free version), and Veeam supports it. And overall, Hyper-V 2012 actually beats vSphere 5.1 in my mind in terms of functionality (at least for small deployments, such as the one being discussed in your example).
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby JoshRountree » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:57 pm

Gostev wrote:
JoshRountree wrote:What you pay to license your entire virtual infrastructure for a single server (due to licensing costs) might buy you 2 servers (production + DR) and all the equipment needed to back them up.

You mean VMware? Because Hyper-V is completely free (with no limitations on free version), and Veeam supports it. And overall, Hyper-V 2012 actually beats vSphere 5.1 in my mind in terms of functionality (at least for small deployments, such as the one being discussed in your example).


No, in my particular case I would like to virtualize a server that needs Oracle as the database backend. I have 3 hosts, 2 in production, 1 at DR. According to Oracle licensing I need to have all the processors in each host licensed to be legal. Both in production so I can VMotion if need be as well as HA, and DR in case I need DR. For the amount of money to buy 6 Oracle licenses I can buy 2 servers (with only 1 processor each) and all the hardware and software to back them up cheaper than I can license Oracle to run virtualized.

It could be that my software vendor could come up with a better solution (hosted vs. in-house), but those are my options now.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby tsightler » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:18 am 3 people like this post

To meet the letter of the law regarding Oracle's ridiculous licensing you are probably correct, however, if you have only a single Oracle instance, and at no point will you ever run that instance on more than a single host at a time, you can probably get by with licensing only a single host and still be legal, as the actual Oracle statement is that any host with a running Oracle instance must be fully licensed, and with only a single instance it's impossible for it to ever run on more than a single host at a time, and Oracle's socket and core licenses are transferable.

Even with multiple instances, many customers choose to push this limit by tying their Oracle instances to a single host and only vMotioning them temporarily for maintenance. This likely doesn't meet the "letter of the law" according to Oracle, but would be virtually impossible to detect during an audit, assuming Oracle actually ever performs an audit, and apparently many customers, along with their corporate legal counsel, have decided that there's not much risk to this approach.

Of course, never take your licensing advice from a random guy on a forum (although I've had significant previous experience with Oracle licensing).
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:53 pm 1 person likes this post

Tom, unfortunately is not that easy...

Designing Oracle environments on VMware has always been a sort of "black magic" right because of Oracle unclear licensing, and for sure they do this on purpose so they can always charge customers much more than what is needed.

Michael Webster has written one of the best articles about Oracle licensing on VMware, it's worth a read:
http://longwhiteclouds.com/2012/07/21/f ... e-vsphere/

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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby tsightler » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:55 pm 2 people like this post

I am intimately familiar with Oracle licensing on VMware and wish I could share more of those details on this public forum, however, suffice it to say that the blog you linked to pretty much mirrors my statements above, just with much more detail. My post above was not intended to be licensing advice, but rather a reflection of what I see in the real world. My actual advice would be to aggressively negotiate your best deal up front (you can get a good deal on the "dead" sockets in you infrastructure), get a pricing agreement in place for maintenance and any future socket upgrades, and stay aggressive in all dealings. If you do this, you can negotiate a deal that will keep you compliant with the letter of the Oracle agreement, while only costing moderately more than physical, or potentially significantly less if you run multiple instances.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:55 pm

Yep, that's what everybody dealing with this has always told me, basically there is nothing fixed and you can negotiate on everything.

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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby garymansell » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:16 am

I asked this very question about Oracle licensing to my Oracle Account manager and this was the response that I got:

The Oracle licensing policy states that if there is any installation of an Oracle database on a remote server, this server must be licensed.

The definition of an installation means any control files, dll’s, log files, exe’s, data files. Even if the database is not running, but has an installation, it must be licensed.


This would suggest to me that even replicated Oracle installations will require a license even if they are not running?
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby chadtandy » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:41 pm

I too would be interested in Veeam being able to backup physical servers. We are a 95% virtual shop but have a few servers that we'll likely never be able to virtualize, a few Windows phone servers with specialty cards installed and a couple other misc servers. So maintaining Commvault just for ~10 physical servers is kind of silly, although it also serves as my archiving to tape needs.

-Chad
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby aporter » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:34 am

One approach we have used is to schedule a recurring p2v task. One could then backup the resulting VM with Veeam.
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby murdocmk » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:30 pm

I struggle with the scheduled p2v task approach because of the time involved in running a full p2v for every physical machine during every backup window. I know that solution can work in some specific scenarios, but as a general solution it's not adequate for most of the situations I've run into. Now, if you're using something that offers an "incremental" p2v, so that only changes in physical machines are synced with a VM copy, then that's a different story. That's the type of solution I'd love to see bundled into Veeam.

An "incremental"/block-based p2v to a VM which Veeam then backs up, with the appropriate tools to write that VM back to a physical machine (preferably with some kind of hardware independent restore capabilities).
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby kjc3303 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:36 pm

Me too! Platespin offer this but at £222 per workload (server, non transferable) it don't come cheap.
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[MERGED] VEEAM Support For Windows 2008 Small Buisness Serve

Veeam Logoby ERGUSER » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:11 pm

Hi Support,

Can I Use Veeam Backup & Replication, To Replicate Full Physical Server Running Windows 2008 Small Buisness Server (Retail), To HyperV 2008R2 Guest Env (Or Hyper-V2012 Guest Env)
If supported, If the physical server crashed, What can I expect regarding the windows activation process on the replicated host, when turning him on, Will it work so I can connect the users to the replicated server?


Thanks In Advanced,
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:22 pm

Hello ERGUSER, Veeam does not backup/replication physical servers. Thanks!
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby ERGUSER » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Vitaliy S. wrote:Hello ERGUSER, Veeam does not backup/replication physical servers. Thanks!

Hi Vitaliy S.,
Thanks For The Quick Reply,

So, If I P2V The Small Buiseness 2008 Server To Hyper-V Guest Env, Can I Replicate It To Another Hyper-V Guest Env On Another Server? What can I expect regarding the windows activation process on the replicated host, when turning him on, Will it work so I can connect the users to the replicated server?

Regards,
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Re: Physical Server Backup

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Yes, you can replicate it to another Hyper-V server. Cannot comment on Windows activation process, but I guess the behavior should be similar to just moving VM from one Hyper-V host to another manually.
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