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Moopere
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Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

Hello Folks, this query is about searching for files more generally, but I'll use an example of rotated media because its highlights my issue. I'm testing against the Community Edition, though my reading of docs and features infers this problem would be the same for the Standard Edition (and possibly Essentials).

I can't seem to work out how to find a file, and all its revisions, using VBR. Note that there is little to be found via a google or forums search on this subject ... does that mean that I've missed something blindingly obvious and no-one is taking about searching because it 'just works' ???

Anyway, the few links I've found that mention searching for files universally describe the use of "Enterprise Manager", which is fine for Enterprise licences ... how do we gain basic search functionality with Standard or Community licencing?

For example:

1) Rotated media used. Assume 14 external USB disks
2) Every day the rotated media is changed
3) I am requested to recover a file which disappeared some time in the last 10 days. The end-users don't know which day was the last day the file existed.
4) I know the file name.

I can't for the life of me work out how to find the correct rotated media to do the restore. I can drill down the file/folder hierarchy on the currently inserted rotated media, but what about the other 13 media in the rotation?

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by foggy »

Hi, you are able to use the search capabilities of Enterprise Manager even with Standard Edition, just with some differences in how indices are stored. Thanks!

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

Oh, ok, it isn't clear to me from the docs that standard edition allows the use of Enterprise Manager. I'm doing my testing against community edition, and EM can't even be installed on this edition.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

I'm really unsure about this, perhaps someone can walk me through how to do a search?

The edition comparison mentions "Guest file system indexing", the functionality being 'partial' for both the Community Edition and the Starter Edition. The Starter Edition provides, I believe, VBR Standard.

The explanation for this function of Community Edition and Starter Edition is:

"A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk. Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results."

My bold above.

I can't see any indication that Enterprise Manager can be installed with a license less than Enterprise and the full functionality alluded to above probably come with that. So, I still can't see how the partial functionality is used. How does one search against the guest files catalog?

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by veremin »

As mentioned above, Enterprise Manager works with Standard edition, but provides limited search capabilities (you cannot search for files archived to tapes, for instance). So, what kind of additional indication you're looking for? Thanks!

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

> So, what kind of additional indication you're looking for?

Enterprise manager can't be installed on community edition and I suspect not on std edition either.

Community edition, and starter edition (std VBR) are supposed to have this functionality instead:

"A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk."

But its not at all clear to me how to use it? How does one actually do the search?

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

I've opened a case on this: #04259606

Hope to get some clarity. Seems likely that the Community Edition doesn't contain search functionality given that all references to this type of function ultimately leads back to Enterprise Manager, which cannot be installed on CE due to no licence number.

I'll have to flip this install over to a time limited trial at some point anyway, but the end purchase is likely to be VBR standard and as CE and Standard both share 'partial' functionality with respect to searching, this is quite the relevant question as I'm sure can be imagined.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Gostev »

Enterprise Manager is included in the Standard Edition (but not in Starter).

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

The pricing indication page on the Veeam website indicates that Veeam Backup Starter VUL comes with "Edition Feature Set: Standard"

The feature comparison chart states that Community Edition and Starter Edition comes with: Guest file system Indexing, partial ... and the explanation bubble that pops out describes this functionality as:

"A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk. Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results."

I'm not trying to trap anyone here with words ... if there is an error in the above, so be it - but right now, as described, there apparently should be a search for files capability with both Starter and Community and I can't work out how to use it.

I have screen caps of the website wording which would be great for clarity, but can't upload to the forum. I'll see if I can attach to the ticket.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Gostev »

Starter is more limited than Standard Edition: no Enterprise Manager and no Cloud Connect. I remember seeing highlights about these limitations on the edition comparison page.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

Two things seem to be emerging:

1) I am completely confused on the meanings of the VBR editions.

As I said in my post above, the Veeam pricing indications page says this: "Veeam Backup Starter VUL comes with "Edition Feature Set: Standard" ... does this refer to VBR Standard?

I ask because Veremin says this in a post abovce: "As mentioned above, Enterprise Manager works with Standard edition"


2) On the Veeam product comparison page it states this:

"A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk. Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results."

What does this functionality refer to? Specifically, what does VBR that isn't Enterprise or Enterprise Plus functionality refer to?

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Gostev »

Editions are from our legacy socket-based licensing, it is best to ignore any references to them at this time completely if you're looking at VUL. They are only helpful for existing Veeam partners and customers, which is why they are mentioned sometimes as we transition away from the socket licensing. Here's the official edition comparison page that covers individual features. From this page, you can see that Starter does not include Enterprise Manager at all.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

Ok thanks for the link, on the page referenced by the link above, it mentions Community and Starter having this functionality: "A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk. Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results"

How does one use it? Where is the search that is mentioned?

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

Wow, my case: #04259606 was just unceremoniously closed without a word in response ...

I've got to say, and I hope I'm wrong, but this is starting to feel like I'm catching a nerve somewhere. 12 posts for a pretty straightforward advertised functionality question + a support case and no-one is directly addressing the actual question.

As I said previously, I'm not trying to entrap anyone with what might be a poor choice of words in the pre-sales blurb, this query is actually a pre-sales question - I'm evaluating and trying to work out actual real world functionality ... and no-one seems to know.

I'll contact sales directly and see where we get to.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Gostev »

Moopere wrote:
Jul 04, 2020 12:23 am
Ok thanks for the link, on the page referenced by the link above, it mentions Community and Starter having this functionality: "A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk. Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results"
Looks like you're quoting the "Guest file system indexing" feature description. This feature is indeed available in all editions. However, browsing the catalog requires the Veeam Backup Enterprise Manager component (our web UI focused on providing self-service functionality) further down in the Management part of the comparison table.
Moopere wrote:
Jul 04, 2020 12:23 am
How does one use it? Where is the search that is mentioned?
It's in the Veeam Backup Enterprise Manager web UI, under the Files tab. However, according to what you said in the case notes, you're using the Community Edition, which does not have this component. You should use a trial license to evaluate this functionality.
Moopere wrote:
Jul 04, 2020 12:35 am
Wow, my case: #04259606 was just unceremoniously closed without a word in response ...
Looks like you opened it as a free support case for the Community Edition, as opposed to using your actual support contract (or your trial license). In future, be sure you specify the correct entitlement, as free support cases are processed based on support staff availability. It's strange you didn't get the proper notification about free case closing though, as it's standardized and automated. May be something broke - I asked the support management to investigate this.

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Re: Searching for files in rotated media?

Post by Moopere »

> Looks like you're quoting the "Guest file system indexing" feature description. This feature is indeed available in all editions. However, browsing the catalog requires the Veeam Backup Enterprise Manager component (our web UI focused on providing self-service functionality) further down in the Management part of the comparison table.

Yes, indeed.

Again, just so we're clear, and I hate having to repeat this, but I'm not trying to hang anyone for word choices. Having said that, there is something a bit off in describing the "Guest file system indexing" functionality as 'partial' in the edition comparison, describing that partial functionality but then not actually being able to access that functionality at any level if one isn't using an enterprise license.

Surely the right way to list this function in the comparison table is 'not available' for Community and Standard, and then go on to describe the function and how it works for the enterprise editions.

I'm referring specifically to this: "A catalog of guest files enabling effortless search of individual files to find and restore a file without knowing the precise file location, or the time when it was deleted. All editions provide a catalog of guest files in backups currently on disk."

The way thats written is quite unambiguous. You can search for files.

It goes on in the next sentence to say this: "Enterprise and Enterprise Plus editions also provide a catalog of archived backup files, and integrate with one click to enable restores directly from search results"

So clearly there is added functionality in the enterprise edition.

It seems though, in actual fact, with CE or STD you can't actually search for files at all. The system might well create a catalog in the background, but the user can't access that catalog in any meaningful way using only the editions listed.

I was/am testing CE as I believed it to have the same functionality as 'Starter', difference being only in the max number of VUL's available to be purchased under the editions terms.

Anyway, given I need a search capability, I'll chat with sales about getting an enterprise trial license key.

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