So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups...

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So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups...

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:13 pm

The organization wants to replicate our primary datacenter VM's to a DR datacenter 24/7/365.
The organization also want to have archival backups taken nightly which will go to disk, then to tape.
How can I accomplish this with Veeam?
I can't replicate and backup the same VM at the same time, one of the two jobs will wait around for the other.
I can't backup replica images while replication is running because the replicas get corrupt.

How are you guys doing this or how would you do this if you had the need?

Currently we have:

Production:
4 ESXi hosts
1 NetApp FAS8020 SAN
1 Physical FC connected proxy for Replication. (from PROD to DR and DR to PROD)
1 Physical FC connected proxy for Backups which dumps backups to a NetApp ESeries storage target.

DR Site:
4 ESXi hsots
1 NetAPp FAS8020 SAN
1 Physical FC connected proxy for Replication (from PROD to DR and DR to PROD)

Thanks in advance.

Right now we only replicate from 6am to 7pm, then stop the jobs (via the time rules in the job). Then at 9PM the backups fire off. So we have from 7pm to 6am the next day where our DR site isn't receiving any updates.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:33 am

Hello Jonathan,
In your case my choice would be backup+backup copy+replica from backup data, which is really convenient since you don`t just have twice less snapshots, you also don`t need to transfer the data twice.
And then you can use backup to tape job for tape achieving.
Are you on version 9?
Thanks!
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:22 pm

How current could I keep my replica site with this setup? Right now I replicate everything within 1-2 hours. Adding a backup in first, won't that increase my RPO at the replica site?

We are on version 9.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby haslund » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:27 pm

Are your replication jobs configured to run continuously except for when you have the backup jobs running in the night currently?
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:21 pm

RPO is not going to change, but you will have backups along with replicas.
How often do you backup currently?
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jveerd1 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:44 am

This sounds like an excellent use case for NetApp storage snapshots. Use Veeam to orchestrate the (app-aware) snaphots with secondary snapmirror to your DR. Use all other Veeam functionality for your archival requirements. Or, less preferred, use NetApp storage snapshots integration for backup and replication jobs.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:20 pm

rhaslund wrote:Are your replication jobs configured to run continuously except for when you have the backup jobs running in the night currently?


You got it, they run from 6am, repeating non-stop until about 8pm. Then backups run at 9pm.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:23 pm

jveerd1 wrote:This sounds like an excellent use case for NetApp storage snapshots. Use Veeam to orchestrate the (app-aware) snaphots with secondary snapmirror to your DR. Use all other Veeam functionality for your archival requirements. Or, less preferred, use NetApp storage snapshots integration for backup and replication jobs.


I could use a bit more help understanding this.

Right now we don't use snapmirror but are licensed for it.

We just use Veeam to replicate our NetApp FAS8020 VM's from one site to another site (which also has a NetApp FAS8020). So "clones" are sometimes made when we do backups of VM's that are on NetApp storage (when it doesen't error out which is most of the time, Case 01155095) but I don't think we utilize snapmirror at all. Should we?
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:23 pm

Shestakov wrote:RPO is not going to change, but you will have backups along with replicas.
How often do you backup currently?


Backups nightly, replication all day long (only during 6-am-7pm right now, goal is 24/7).
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:33 pm

And how often do you replicate(every hour/two hours)? How much time does backup job run take?
If you want to replicate constantly I would try to implement above-mentioned replica from backup. Another option is to set a backup job to run once a day + replication job every hour(up to you) with a backup window eliminating the time when backup job works.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jveerd1 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:28 pm

It would be a missed opportunity not utilising NetApp snapshots and snapmirror. It is very easy to configure, so please give it a shot.
https://helpcenter.veeam.com/backup/vsp ... shots.html
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:16 pm

We are using hardware snapshots (or trying to) but they fail quite often with device busy errors and default over to regular VM backups (case 01155095).

I don't think Veeam does anything with Snapmirror currently, at least in regards to SAN to SAN replication it isn't.

What am I missing?
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby Shestakov » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:10 pm

Indeed Veeam has an integration with NetApp SnapMirror and SnapVault.
There is a discussion in the different topic.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jveerd1 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:13 pm

Not sure what you mean with Veeam doesn't do anything with Snapmirror. But you are missing a great benefit of Veeam NetApp integration if you don't read the documentation link I posted.
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Re: So I need to Replicate 24/7/365 but we also want backups

Veeam Logoby jbarrow.viracoribt » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:27 pm

I've opened up a ticket with support to help me reach this goal. I'm a bit confused as to the best way to set things up with all the components we have.

Prod:
4 x ESXi Hosts, 1 Cluster
1 x NetApp FAS8020 with SnapMirror/Snap Vault Licenses
1 x FC connected Physical Proxy

Local DR (we want backups to go here, at least nightly):
1 x FC connected Physical Proxy
1 x NetApp E5660 Storage Server (274 TB raw disk space)

Offsite DR (we want this to be a running replica of Prod with as low of an RPO as we can get):
4 x EXSi Hosts, 1 Cluster
1 x NetApp FAS 8020 with SnapMirror/Snap Vault Licenses

Right now we try and use storage snapshots with our Veeam jobs but get "device busy" errors quite often which slows down the jobs and they revert to traditional snapshots for backups.
We don't really use SnapMirror/SnapVault in our current design but maybe we should.
We currently replicate only between the hours of 6am and 7pm, then stop the jobs and allow backups to run at 9pm.
We want to replicate 24/3/365 (and keep the RPO as low as possible) but still get backups using the hardware we have now.
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