Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

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[MERGED] Migrate to another host

Veeam Logoby marama » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:54 am

Hi!

ESXi 5.5, Veeam B&R Enterprise+, vmWare Essentials (no vMotion)

We have one host (host1) running production VMs, we have another one (host2) running the replicas, and we have a physical PC running Veeam B&R performing replication but also doing backup and offsite backup copy . There is also an off-site that hosts the backup copy.

We've received a new host (host3) and we need to move ALL the VMs from host1 to host 3 with least possible impact. With least possible impact, I mean not to reseed the offsite host, but also to have the short failover time for production hosts.

The problem is some VMs are rather big (1.5TB) and "quick migration" doesen't work for me because I'd have probably 20 hours downtime for the big VM, right? And with not fix-projected end time (so I can jump in and fix networking).
Another challenge is preserving the MAC address since I have DHCP with reserved IP running on some systems. I will try to switch most of the VMs to static IP, but some will have to remain DHCP.

What I am now trying to do is to have replication migrate the VMs, so I can pre-replicate the big VM, and then just before the permanent-failover I'd shutdown the VM, perform the final (incremental/differential) replication. But the issue here seems to be that the replicated VM is completely new VM, meaning backup and backup copy need to be re-seeded and all the history breaks. My backup jobs handle multiple VMs, so I cannot map single VMs to single backup files.

What would be the best practice for my migration-scenario?

TIA
marama
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:44 am

Your approach with using replication jobs for migration is correct. Regarding backup jobs mapping, if you just re-add corresponding replica VMs into existing backup jobs, you would be able to map the jobs to existing backup files to keep backup history.

Also, if you change the MAC address configuration to Manual, MAC address should be preserved during replication.
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby marama » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:15 pm

Thanx Foggy.
I've also received a response from Veeam support (refering to my post):

"
Unfortunately, once the VMs will be replicated to a new host, the history will be lost. So you will need to reconfigure your jobs.
"

so what will it be, backup history lost or not?
It's not so much backup history per se that I need, I would like to avoid having to re-seed the offsite repository.

TIA

EDIT: oh, now I realise the "you will need to reconfigure your jobs" might mean I just need to remap the backup
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:44 pm

marama wrote:EDIT: oh, now I realise the "you will need to reconfigure your jobs" might mean I just need to remap the backup

Correct, you would need to map jobs to existing backup files to continue incremental chains.
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby marama » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:30 pm

Hi!

Regarding backup jobs mapping, if you just re-add corresponding replica VMs into existing backup jobs, you would be able to map the jobs to existing backup files to keep backup history.


Unfortunatelly, I am still struggling with this. I've tried everything possible to switch backup job source from old host to new host, while keeping the backup "base" - no luck so far. Am still waiting to hear from Veeam Support, but in all my tests I keep getting the line "backup is no longer processed by this job". I guess the VM-replica on the new host has another VMID so the backups treats it as complete different VM, hence cannot make use of existing backup files. Am I doing something wrong, is there a way around this? (am pointing to standalone hosts, not vCenter). I know if I copy the VM files and create VM out of them I get asked if it's VM was moved or copied (at least within the same host), in that case VMID does not change, right? Can I somehow provoke that sort of cloning?
TIA

30.10.2014 22:38:12 :: backup is no longer processed by this job. Make sure this change is intentional.
30.10.2014 22:38:12 :: VM size: 8,0 GB (1,7 GB used)
30.10.2014 22:38:12 :: Changed block tracking is enabled
30.10.2014 22:38:15 :: Preparing next VM for processing
30.10.2014 22:38:15 :: Processing 'backup_delme'
30.10.2014 22:38:17 :: All VMs have been queued for processing
30.10.2014 22:40:31 :: Load: Source 89% > Proxy 92% > Network 25% > Target 0%
30.10.2014 22:40:31 :: Primary bottleneck: Proxy
30.10.2014 22:40:31 :: Job finished at 30.10.2014 22:40:31
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby albertwt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:09 am

Vitaliy S. wrote:Hi Cor,

You can either use replication or Quick Migration jobs to do that. Please review our Evaluator's Guide for more info.

As to possible tips and tricks for VM migration process, then it would help if we could know a bit more on your environment ;)

Thanks!


So, what's the difference and benefits of using Veeam replication as opposed to using the builtin VMware vSphere replication ?
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:14 am

marama wrote:Unfortunatelly, I am still struggling with this. I've tried everything possible to switch backup job source from old host to new host, while keeping the backup "base" - no luck so far. Am still waiting to hear from Veeam Support, but in all my tests I keep getting the line "backup is no longer processed by this job". I guess the VM-replica on the new host has another VMID so the backups treats it as complete different VM, hence cannot make use of existing backup files. Am I doing something wrong, is there a way around this? (am pointing to standalone hosts, not vCenter).

Have you re-added the replica VMs into jobs?
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:30 am 1 person likes this post

albertwt wrote:So, what's the difference and benefits of using Veeam replication as opposed to using the builtin VMware vSphere replication ?

Here's a dedicated topic regarding that, should give you some thoughts: Veeam vs. vSphere Replication
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby marama » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:23 pm 1 person likes this post

I've spent days trying to get this to work (like I was told by Veeam support) and hours talking to the support people... and it turns out it's not possible after all.

This is my cycle:

vSphere Host1 => Backup => Backup copy (offsite)

If I move a VM from (standalone) host Host1 to another (Host2) by using replication, the rest of the cycle (Backup => Backup copy) always regards the VM from Host2 as a completely different VM. So Veeam would start transfering terrabytes of data to the offsite location even if the data is already there (!).

Have tried everything: replication maping + backup maping + seeding + permanent failover + removing VM from Host1 from backup job, adding VM from Host2 to the backup job...

Maybe vMotion would work but we don't have a license. So I am quite frustrated now as I've lost days trying to do something that's most likely not doable. We just want to move VM from Host1 to Host2, I never thought it would be impossible for Veeam to handle as the same VM (which it is). I still hope someone tells me there is a way to do it.

Bye

EDIT: just got an email from Veeam, saying there might be a way, I should have a look at:
http://helpcenter.veeam.com/backup/70/v ... liary.html
but I think I've already tried it
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:45 pm 1 person likes this post

Well, each time you register VM within VI, it gets a unique ID, which is used by Veeam B&R to track VMs. So if the VM ID is changed (and replica VMs have IDs different from the original VMs), it technically makes them new VMs from perspective of our product. After re-adding VMs and mapping backup jobs, they have to read the entire VM image during the first job run. You can ask support for assistance in modifying product database to avoid this, though.
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby marama » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:58 pm

foggy wrote:Well, each time you register VM within VI, it gets a unique ID, which is used by Veeam B&R to track VMs. So if the VM ID is changed (and replica VMs have IDs different from the original VMs), it technically makes them new VMs from perspective of our product. After re-adding VMs and mapping backup jobs, they have to read the entire VM image during the first job run. You can ask support for assistance in modifying product database to avoid this, though.


Hi Foggy!
Yes, that sounds much better, I'll try to investigate in that direction.
Although I am really dissapointed - all I want do do is move a VM from one host to another. I understand it's different ID, but in my opinion Veeam should be able to handle it through basic functionality. Maybe in one of the future versions... if we were to buy Essentials+, would vMotion cover preserving of those VM IDs?
Although I really dislike paying >3.000 EUR just to migrate few VMs.
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby foggy » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:04 pm

Yes, vMotion preserves VM ID and if vCenter is added to Veeam B&R console, VMs will still be backed up after being vMotioned, without any additional actions required.
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby rdelc » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:37 pm 2 people like this post

We moved our entire operation (24x7) business to a different location 10 miles away two years ago. We did not have single minute of downtime. We had over 164 virtual servers. We changed the infrastructure completely in the process going from Vmware 4 to version 5 on the target. All new host hardware, all new SAN hardware. We went from Dell R900 on Equallogic to HP DL380s on Hitachi.

The hardest part was the application planning. Our applications have to run. Some had short windows of outage, but we were able to coordinate them all. We also moved physical severs also in the process. But we are heavily virtiualized and Veeam performed like a champ.

One thing we had going for us was that we had 500mb pipe and we bridged the network. This basically simplified the the process of subnets and changing ips.

We had servers that had Terabytes of storage. One thing we did was once we had the initial replication done, we replicated often ahead of the schedule cut over. This made the last replication as fast as possible as we cut down on change blocks.

We are currently in the process of doing a similar thing building our DR site. This time we are going over routed network, with a lot less bandwidth. 60mb pipe works, but it is much slower because of the size of our VMs. One thing we are doing to alleviate and help with this, is we are seeding the jobs for the larger jobs.

thanks,
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby albertwt » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:28 pm

RDelc,

Did you use the Storage Array replication technology or just using Veeam to replicate the VM at the hypervisor layer ?
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Re: Using Veeam replication to Migrate Datacenter

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:25 am 1 person likes this post

They moved from an EqualLogic to an HDS array, so I don't think there was any storage replication available between the two. Sounds like they used Veeam instead, based also on the seeding part ot the story (and the fact we are in the Veeam forums :))
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