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[ARCHIVED] Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by nickmancini » Dec 05, 2009 8:55 pm

Question:

With Veeam 4, if the backup job has the "Perform Full Backup on these days" option checked for every day, and, if the job has a retention policy of only 1 rollback point, can the job be written to a removable media set (RDX drive) that is rotated daily?

While we understand (and like) the idea of always writing the backup job to local media, and then using robocopy or xcopy to copy the jobs to removable media, this is not always practical, due to HDD size contraints, as well as other issues.

Please advise.

Thx.

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by Gostev » Dec 05, 2009 9:48 pm

Not in Veeam 4.0, but we have added a registry key in 4.1 that should allow for this scenario. This key will make the job not fail if backup file is not found on the job's destination path, but instead create the new backup file.

Code: Select all

ForceCreateMissingVBK
DWORD
1

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by nickmancini » Dec 05, 2009 9:52 pm

Excellent, thanks.

Besides the reg hack, is there anything in particular that is necessary to modify in the job itself (rollback points; perform full backup; etc.)?

Or will the reg hack handle it all?

Thanks again!

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by Gostev » Dec 05, 2009 11:01 pm

No other changes should be needed.

If the backup file found missing during the incremental pass, job either:
- Fails out with "backup file not found" error (default behavior without reg hack), or
- Automatically performs full backup creating the new full backup file (behavior with reg hack). Along with that, the information about missing backup files chain is deleted from the configuration database to prevent any issues with accessing missing files in future.

We do not want this to be the default behavior, as backup file might have been moved to another folder accidentally. It is better to fail and let the user know and let him put the backup file back, instead of removing all traces of previous backups and starting from scratch like nothing happened. Requiring to explicitly enable this behavior assures that the user knows what he/she is doing.

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by nickmancini » Dec 17, 2009 2:34 pm

Excellent - Thanks!

Since we manage backups for our clients, we'll know when to apply the hack and when not to.

In a few cases, we write directly to removable media, so we need the hack for those clients.

Otherwise, default settings will work well.

How do I obtain the reg hack?

Thanks!

(PS: 4.1 looks good. Only issue is having to dig up the .lic file when doing an upgrade install over 4.0. Wish it would just use the previously installed license....)

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by Gostev » Dec 17, 2009 2:42 pm

Create the following key in Veeam hive under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE (where all other Veeam keys are):

Code: Select all

ForceCreateMissingVBK
DWORD
1

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & removable Media

Post by nickmancini » Dec 17, 2009 3:00 pm

Excellent!

Thanks!

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[MERGED] General Backup to 2 different NFS Shares

Post by netrix » Apr 04, 2011 10:20 am

Hello All,

i hope that this is the right thread for my answer. We use Veeam to Backup 8 VM's. For Desaster Recovery the idea is that we will use 2 Network HD with NFS. One Week we will Backup to Disk1 next week to the other. First week all is OK. Wenn we changed the Disk Veeam failed all Backup's with no config File found.

Any ideas or workaround. Different Backup Jobs will not Work and any new created Job fails to.

Thanks for your help

Reguards Oliver

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Re: Veeam Backup 4 & Removable Media

Post by Gostev » Apr 04, 2011 11:35 am

Please note that the key above will not help jobs which already failed once due to missing VBK. The key will only affect newly created jobs (and those which had not failed yet).

Additionally, as always please be sure to restart all Veeam services and UI after changing any registry setting. Registry parameters are queried only once, during service and UI start up.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by larry » Apr 25, 2011 1:26 pm

I am replacing the raid the Veeam uses. We are not moving any of the data to the new raid, just keeping the raid offline for 30 days, if I need the data I will import. Can I set this reg setting and assign the same drive letters, will Veeam then create the folders and do a full backup ? thanks What is the best way to have Veeam remove the old backups from the DB ?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by admcomputing » Apr 28, 2011 10:39 am

Also, does this registry key work with version 5.0.x?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Vitaliy S. » Apr 28, 2011 11:38 am

Yes, this reg key is still applicable to v5.
larry wrote:Can I set this reg setting and assign the same drive letters, will Veeam then create the folders and do a full backup ? thanks What is the best way to have Veeam remove the old backups from the DB ?
Yes, if you apply this key to the backup server, then all your backups will be re-created from scratch. The best way to remove all the records from the database is to adjust retention policy and let it do all the job for you.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by NightBird » Dec 24, 2011 8:19 am

Is this reg key always applicable to v6 ?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Gostev » Dec 24, 2011 6:11 pm

No, this key no longer works due to the switch to the new architecture with backup repositories.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by NightBird » Dec 25, 2011 6:53 pm

So, how to manage USB rotated drives with v6 ?

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Gostev » Dec 25, 2011 7:51 pm

This scenario is not yet supported with v6 backup repositories. I believe, you can make it work if you make sure subfolders where each job puts backups into still exist on the newly inserted drives (but I have not tested this myself).

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[MERGED] Cannot Setup simple backup job to removable drive

Post by rileybloke » Jan 16, 2012 9:37 am

Hello,

After upgrading from V5 to V6, I cannot setup a simple backup job.
I have a Dell RD1000 drive which is presented to Windows as a removable drive, physically it is a removeable cartridge similar to a tape, but not tape.

I have 2 cartridges A & B which we alternate daily. In version 5 I had a simple backup job (reversed incremental) full backup every day. This backup job would run overnight and create a VBK file on the cartridge (removabel drive).
We swap the cartridges each day, to ensure we always had a full backup of the VM off-site.
The job was configured for only 1 restore point, as 1 removable drive could only hold 1 full backup.
A script is run to delete the VBK file from the removable drive before the job runs.

In version 6 we had to create a repository pointing the removable drive, the backup job works on its 1st time run directly after creation of the job, but any subsequent jobs failed with an error "Failed to save backup meta to 'E:\Backups\CMSVR1-BK\CMSVR1-BK.vbm' [VEEAM-PC] Failed to save file content. The system cannot find the path specified "

Speaking with support, they advised to delete the VBM file (new in V6) along with the VBK file, but it still failed.
Then support advised I need to create 2 repositories, and 2 jobs, and alternate the jobs with the drives.
I dont think this method is efficient, as the operator would need to make sure the correct cartridge is inserted for that day, in their absence the job would fail, especially if they were absent for a few days.

Is there any way we can run a backup every day as in version 5?
I have had to revert back to Version 5 in the meantime.

Thanks

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by rileybloke » Jan 16, 2012 2:31 pm

Hi Gostev,

Thanks I tried to keep the folder structure on the removable drives, but it needs the VBM and VBK files to already exist from the most previous job. As we have swapped drives it is not the most previous job, but the 2nd to most pervious, if you get me :-)

Shame, im stuck on V5:-(

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by foggy » Jan 16, 2012 2:48 pm

Phil, have you set the registry key discussed in this topic above? With the key set, VBR should not require any files to exist at all. (Please note, however, that, as Anton has already said, this scenario was not tested and cannot be supported - just a guess.)

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by stormlord » Jan 19, 2012 2:43 am

Hi, I have the same problem, I backup over 10 usb disk. 5 each week in rotation.
But its no sense to create 10 job.
What is the best practice for this in v6 ?

I have think to make backup local and create a erease copy job schedule, but its not very a clean way.
Thanks to all.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbiesheuvel » Jan 19, 2012 2:32 pm

I also have the same problem. We have lots of customers with Veeam. I want to update them Veeam 6 but this is something I really need.

The problem is that some backups are big > 1TB. This can be copied to an E-SATA disk without any problems but I do not want to use Reversed Incremental (because the 1TB file is changed every single day). This is a big file which needs time to copy.

Thats' why we choose to use the incremental option. In the weekend we shuffle the folder the vbk is stored on and then a new full is made. This method is working and the backups are copied afterwards to disk fine. If we do not shuffle and use the option "transform previous full backup chains into rollback" it takes 24!! hours to complete this. This is abnormal long and that's why I reject to use it. Or is this option optimized in Veeam 6 so it takes shorter to complete?

In other words please enable the option again. I have already tested it in Veeam 6. So I have set the registry key and made a new job. Shuffled the backup and let the backup start. But I get the same error as everyone else:
19-1-2012 14:34:50 :: Failed to save backup meta to '\\nas01\backup\week1\veeam\Backup Veeam\Backup Veeam.vbm'
[BACKUP01] Failed to save file content.
The system cannot find the file specified.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by Vitaliy S. » Jan 20, 2012 7:36 am

Michel, have you tried the workaround that Anton has mentioned in the previous post?
Gostev wrote:This scenario is not yet supported with v6 backup repositories. I believe, you can make it work if you make sure subfolders where each job puts backups into still exist on the newly inserted drives (but I have not tested this myself).

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbiesheuvel » Jan 21, 2012 7:01 pm

Well we do not backup to disk directly. We backup to a NAS and then with a Backup PC to an E-SATA disk. The point is we want to go back in time for a couple of weeks but do not want to use the retention of 28 days or use the Incremental which wants a full every week. We just want to have the option to create a full backup every week in a new folder which can be copied to disk which contains 1 week data.

I just do not understand why the option is removed. You said it is because of technical reasons? Which reasons if I may ask? I am really interested in the technical answer.

What if we use only one Backup Proxy with one destination? Just like in version 5.

My opinion is Veeam is thinking to much in Enterprise and if forgetting the smaller sized companies with max 5 ESX servers. With this option removed we need to rethink our backup method. I was so happy with Veeam but this really makes me think.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Jan 21, 2012 9:12 pm

I think the "technical reasons" are probably referring to the benefits of splitting the metadata into a separate file. There are many, many benefits to this approach, some of which are already in V6 (virtually instant import of backup files, compared to a relatively slow process in previous versions), and some that will be coming in future versions.

Unfortunately, this new enhancement broke an existing feature that some customers were using. This "rotation" feature was not used by the majority of customers, which is why it required a registry key to enable. Most customers seem to simply choose to copy the files for their "offsite" rotation media using a post-job script, which still works fine with V6.

I'm still not 100% clear as to what you are currently doing. You're backup up to a NAS, and then copying this to removable media? Then basically emptying the folder? Have you tried simply copying the VBM file back in place into the new folder? I'll try to play with it a little bit.

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Re: Cannot Setup simple backup job to removable drive

Post by tsightler » Jan 22, 2012 3:13 am

rileybloke wrote: I have 2 cartridges A & B which we alternate daily. In version 5 I had a simple backup job (reversed incremental) full backup every day. This backup job would run overnight and create a VBK file on the cartridge (removabel drive).
We swap the cartridges each day, to ensure we always had a full backup of the VM off-site.
The job was configured for only 1 restore point, as 1 removable drive could only hold 1 full backup.
A script is run to delete the VBK file from the removable drive before the job runs.

In version 6 we had to create a repository pointing the removable drive, the backup job works on its 1st time run directly after creation of the job, but any subsequent jobs failed with an error "Failed to save backup meta to 'E:\Backups\CMSVR1-BK\CMSVR1-BK.vbm' [VEEAM-PC] Failed to save file content. The system cannot find the path specified "

Speaking with support, they advised to delete the VBM file (new in V6) along with the VBK file, but it still failed.
Then support advised I need to create 2 repositories, and 2 jobs, and alternate the jobs with the drives.
I dont think this method is efficient, as the operator would need to make sure the correct cartridge is inserted for that day, in their absence the job would fail, especially if they were absent for a few days.

Is there any way we can run a backup every day as in version 5?
I have had to revert back to Version 5 in the meantime.
This particular use case is easy. If I understand correctly, you're basically just running a full backup every night. So, add the registry key, set your retention to the lowest value, and configure the job to run an active full every night. This works fine in my testing.

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by jpaul » Jan 23, 2012 12:52 am

Sounds to me like Veeam needs to make a "USB tape engine" LOL

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by pitchpartners » Jan 24, 2012 2:58 pm

mbiesheuvel wrote:Well we do not backup to disk directly. We backup to a NAS and then with a Backup PC to an E-SATA disk. The point is we want to go back in time for a couple of weeks but do not want to use the retention of 28 days or use the Incremental which wants a full every week. We just want to have the option to create a full backup every week in a new folder which can be copied to disk which contains 1 week data.

I just do not understand why the option is removed. You said it is because of technical reasons? Which reasons if I may ask? I am really interested in the technical answer.

What if we use only one Backup Proxy with one destination? Just like in version 5.

My opinion is Veeam is thinking to much in Enterprise and if forgetting the smaller sized companies with max 5 ESX servers. With this option removed we need to rethink our backup method. I was so happy with Veeam but this really makes me think.
Totally agree!! Whats happening to the SMB market? Also creating Proxies here n there is not an option for some SMB's.

Please Veeam fix this issue that been broken. Coming from an SMB market, v6 is not so friendly and considering rolling back.
Rob
www.PitchPartners.com

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by mbelcourt » Jan 24, 2012 3:24 pm

I have the same problem when I use a USB hard drive.

The temporary solution (hopefully temporary) I've found, is to delete the job was done the day before.
1) go to "Backup & Replication"
2) go to the subfolder "Backup"
3) Right click on the job
4) Select "Remove from backups"

The problem is I need to do this every day

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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by pitchpartners » Jan 24, 2012 3:39 pm

Theres no logic in this. Unless this is sorted soon new SMB clients of ours will be sold different backup software.
Rob
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Re: Veeam Backup & Removable Media (rotated drives)

Post by tsightler » Jan 24, 2012 5:10 pm

mbelcourt wrote:I have the same problem when I use a USB hard drive.

The temporary solution (hopefully temporary) I've found, is to delete the job was done the day before.
1) go to "Backup & Replication"
2) go to the subfolder "Backup"
3) Right click on the job
4) Select "Remove from backups"

The problem is I need to do this every day
Once again I will ask, are you simply running a full backup every night? If so, the registry key will still work. Simply configure the job to run an active full every night with the registry key and all is good.

You could also easily script the "Remove from backups" tasks via PowerShell and have the server automatically do this just prior to the backup run.

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