Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby tgillispie » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:32 pm

Its great that adherence to the 3-2-1 rule is a topic for discussion.

@Gostev's insights are (as usual) spot on. Storage from a single vendor/ecosystem is fundamentally "single media".

In the ExaGrid case, I wanted to point out that each ExaGrid appliance's internal storage is logically divided into two areas that are for different purposes. One area is the landing zone, where Veeam backups land unimpeded and without any inline/deduplication processing. The other area holds the deduplicated backups. The most recent Veeam backups will remain in this landing zone/cache until the next week's fulls come along. While they share the underlying physical RAID6 storage, the lifecycle of backups is very different in the two areas. I don't claim the two areas count as "two media", satisfying the 3-*2*-1 rule, but when considering a deduplication appliance for Veeam backup storage, the appliance's architecture needs to be considered in light of the 3-2-1 rule.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby mkaec » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:44 pm 1 person likes this post

Maybe that's 3-1½-1. :)
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby ViperDaSnake » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

tgillispie wrote:zuldan - as the Director of Engineering here at ExaGrid responsible for interop between ExaGrid's solution and Veeam, I wanted to update you on a few things.
2. There are some changes in Veeam B&R v9.5 that are likely to drive a change in the best practices - covered in the KB article you reference - stay tuned.


Came here for this...
We deployed in 2014 and we now need to reconfigure our backups to take advantage of the many changes since then.
We have 4 different sites and each has varying levels of implementation.
It's time to blow them away and rebuild but not sure what that looks like yet?
That KB doesn't seem to exist now. The link doesn't work and I am unable to search for it.
Hopefully that means it is being rewritten for 9.5...?
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby Mike Resseler » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:34 am 1 person likes this post

Hi,

I'll talk to support to see what is happening with the KB. It might be indeed that it is being rewritten :-)

Stay tuned
Mike
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby zuldan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:11 am

Hi all, sorry, just bringing the conversation back to the original post.

I thought the final solution might involve configuring repositories to point to sub-folders, however this (below) is the what the Veeam patch does according to Veeam support.

The hotfix doesn't change any folder names. The problem appears because in some certain circumstances Veeam may perform metadata re-sync and as a result re-create .vbm file. Hotfix contains improved logic which should avoid such situations for newly created jobs, however, it' won't fix already affected backups.


So is the problem because we're pointing both Backup Job and Backup Copy Job to the same folder or is it a bug within Veeam? If someone could explain exactly what the root cause is that would at least relieve some of the frustration.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby foggy » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:42 am

As I've mentioned in my first post above, the general requirement is not to have multiple repositories pointing to exactly the same location, since this can result in multiple issues, including the observed behavior. You've seen one of the issues caused by how metadata handling is currently performed (which is fixed by the hotfix you obtained), but other issues inclined by such configuration are possible as well. So ideally, you should avoid repositories pointing to the same location.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby mkaec » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:28 pm

I definitely recommend creating sub-folders if you are going to point multiple repositories to the same ExaGrid share. Assuming your shares are configured as "Veeam Backup & Replicaiton" type with a transport of "ExaGrid-Veeam Accelerated Data Mover", you'll be able to create the sub-folder in Veeam.

1. Click the FILES tab in the left pane.
2. In the upper portion of the left pane, navigate to Linux > [ExaGrid Server] > home > vveam > [share name].
3. Right click and select "New Folder" from the popup menu.

Then you can go into the repository and set the "Path to folder" to "home/veeam/[share name>]<folder name>". Obviously, the best time to do this is when setting up a new repository. But, I believe you would be able to move the existing files into the new folder. Though, that does get a little more complicated as you've got to let Veeam know that you did this.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby zuldan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:29 am

foggy wrote:As I've mentioned in my first post above, the general requirement is not to have multiple repositories pointing to exactly the same location


Now that I realize is going on, I totally agree with you.

foggy wrote:since this can result in multiple issues, including the observed behavior. You've seen one of the issues caused by how metadata handling is currently performed (which is fixed by the hotfix you obtained)


Ok understood, jobs pointing the exact same share location has caused issues with the metadata which has caused some sort of corruption with my backup job association with files. I wish the KB mentioned creating sub-folders. Come to think of it, I'm regretting finding that KB article and just leaving the Backup Jobs to 20 restore points.

foggy wrote:So ideally, you should avoid repositories pointing to the same location.


I would like to point out that the current and previous support person working on the case has not once said anything about pointing the backup jobs to different sub-folders (feel free to scan the case notes). The only thing that has occurred is a patch was provided that has now made everything worse even though Backup Copy Jobs are disabled. I have started including my account manager in the communication going back and forth. I'm sure you can understand my frustration.

Looking forward to sleeping better each night when this is all over and Backup Jobs are back to normal!

@mkaec, thank you for the clear instructions. As soon as Veeam support make this recommendation I will make the changes to the Backup Jobs.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby foggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:45 am

Your frustration is explainable. I will make sure support people are aware of the corrected recommendations.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby jessethomas » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:11 pm 1 person likes this post

Our ExaGrid support representative made us aware of a Veeam fix for this issue:

https://www.veeam.com/kb2249
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby applc » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:18 pm

Thank you for posting this! Do you know if this hotfix overwrites any files in Update 1 or vice versa?
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby jessethomas » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:46 pm

appic,

There is no installer, you just stop services and manually replace a single DLL file (Veeam.Backup.Core.dll), which is newer than the version provided in Update 1.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby mkaec » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:03 pm

I still would recommend setting up the repositories in separate sub-folders on the share. Co-mingling the files just doesn't sit well with me.
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby ChrisSnell » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:35 am

I have to agree. It's better house-keeping, if nothing else!
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Re: Veeam + Exagrid - Very worried

Veeam Logoby DerOest » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:17 am

Hello everyone,
i just skimmed over this thread, and i think the core problem is also to relevant to Netapp users.

Our Veeam Repository is a CIFS share on a Netapp FASxxx. Netapp does Compression/Deduplication on a per-volume-basis.
So to use GFS, i need to set up a volume with 2 separate CIFS shares added as 2 different repositories.

Yes, it works, but it's extra work. Would be nice if it would just be possible to have GFS on the same backup repository.
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