VEEAM with Data Domain as PRIMARY TARGET = NOT GOOD!

[Gasp100]

Just checking back in on my initial thread. The Windows 2012R2 server + NexSAN is doing OK. Restores are acceptable for Exchange, SQL, SharePoint items and I believe FLR is fine as well. The server itself is getting CRUSHED attempting to read all of this new data, using VEEAM built in deduplication and then doing copy backups across the WAN link to a DD2500 in DR. The DD2500 is also running out of space because all of this data looks NEW to the DD. All copy backups failed at first because block size from NexSAN is of course different as compared from DD to DD...
I'll also have to keep a close eye on disk space usage on the NexSAN I'm not sure how well VEEAM really dedupes.
I will mention that we use EMC Networker (mostly traditional style backups) direct to DD with BOOST and it works absolutely fine. So while I do agree with the idea the problem is basically "how VEEAM works" and "how DD works" the fact is, DD can work incredibly well with other products.

Commvault is beating down our door trying to get in a quite frankly the product looks great, but the ALL DO on paper. It can do everything VEEAM can do (and more) but it is expensive as hell. I also have EMC Avamar up my ass trying to replace networker AND VEEAM in one shot...
But, I've invested a LOT of time with this VEEAM infrastructure (Basically building it TWICE at this point) and I just want to make it work, be done and hand this off to someone else to manage. I do like the product, it can fit in our design but they really need to explain the "subtleties" of integration with Data Domain.

[rreed]

My experience w/ Veeam in general (5+ years), and since around spring time this year w/ these deduplicating devices, is that Veeam writing to just a big Windows file share (proxy, locally on the Veeam server itself, etc.) just works and works great. Built-in dedupe and compression are pretty good, Veeam can zip down backup files nicely, I'd like to say easy 50-75+% but it's been a while since I've worked w/ Veeam directly to HDD. 80-90% that dedupe devices claim? Not quite that optimistic, and both our DD's and Dell DR's do report that space savings, but they have proven to be unreliable as heck (enter the "we have a bum network" argument, which might be fair, we're investigating), and even if/when they do work, restore times are near-unusable. Restoring from a Veeam backup file on a Windows machine? Fast and highly usable.

[Gostev]

@Gasp100 you will see great improvements in v9 as it comes to working with dedupe appliances of any type, including Data Domain.

[Gasp100]

I have it going to a NexSAN as explained. It's doing ok and I also have the tape library directly connected via fiber to this same host. BUT, I'm not connecting this host to the production SAN. I'm not taking any chances, I figure every other backup solution we use backups up across network so this should as well. I may reconsider if V9 can truly integrate SAFELY with our EMC VNX and might look at array based snapshots, but I've also just finished EIGHT MONTHS of incredibly detailed deep dive on major issues with our VNX so I don't really feel like touching that as well...
I had an interesting issue today. I allocated 15TB on the NexSAN and presented to the Windows 2012R2 server for VEEAM. Of course I have done a lot of Exchange updates and we have thrown a lot of net new stuff into the VEEAM scheme. So I only have 3TB left. I easily expanded the LUN on the NexSAN to a full array (25TB) and of course f*cking Windows would not let me expand because the freaking cluster size was too small (4K... the cluster size is automatically set when you initially format a volume unless you manually change it... of course I didn't know if this was the final disk/solution so I took defaults).
So now I have two separate "disks" in windows that are actually on the same LUN on the Nexsan. And of course now I'm forced to have TWO separate folders that show up as two separate repositories to VEEAM. Not a huge deal, BUT one is 15TB (3TB free) and one is about 9TB.
So to be safe we are going to have to watch the 15TB like a hawk and I told my junior guy if he wants to add more into VEEAM (which we have A LOT more VM's to add) we are going to have to create all new backup jobs pointing to the new repository.
When I step away from this place I'm hoping to leave him with everything he needs for success... we shall see.
ONE QUESTION
If we need to continue to scale into the NexSAN over time (which we will) am thinking maybe we could provision as second server connected into the fabric, maybe even having it's own dedicated link into the tape library. That way our primary repository is actually two kick ass servers pointing back to different dedicated arrays / disks on the NexSAN (I would force each one to a separate primary controller as well). If I give each one half the current NexSAN space it would be about 50TB a piece which is pretty solid considering VEEAM will deduplicate.
I'm also buying a dual port 10Gbps NIC for this main server and if that helps I will do the same for another dedicated server.
What do you guys think?

[foggy]

So to be safe we are going to have to watch the 15TB like a hawk and I told my junior guy if he wants to add more into VEEAM (which we have A LOT more VM's to add) we are going to have to create all new backup jobs pointing to the new repository.

With the upcoming v9's Scale-Out Repository you would not need to even keep this in mind.

[emachabert]

4K... the cluster size is automatically set when you initially format a volume unless you manually change it... of course I didn't know if this was the final disk/solution so I took defaults

Use maximum chunklet size (64k) for Veeam repositories. It really change the backup performance.

[StevenMeier]

This has been an interesting thread to read.
I have been seriously considering the Datadomain and Veeam 9 Option....as a primary target..but not so sure now.
Being a Veeam platinum partner I have asked for information regarding the issues I have beenr eading about restore as Veeam have published pdf's and videos with Data domain set ups etc.
So I want to get it in writing and I will be asking DD for a box to test in our environment before I sign off any purchases.