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Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:04 am
by Mike Resseler
Andraz,

Thanks for the additional input. One note for all of you: The reason why the manual download is so large is because it contains all updates from GA till now (so be prepared, it will only get bigger :-)). If you do it through windows update, it actually looks what you already have and then only downloads the bits needed for your server, so size will be less. In the manual mode that unfortunately doesn't work

So for those who want to do the manual method, keep that in mind so you don't download it manually on each server ;-)

Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:29 am
by RGijsen
Not entirely true; MS is working on delta-updates for 'standalone' as well. For example this one has them already available: http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com ... =KB4013429. Still around 700MB which for some is a pain in the @ss but still better than 1GB+. Personnaly I not in favour of this constant cumulative update system. Every month something breaks. Then it's AppV. Then it's WMI. Then it's MS Dynamics. It's nearly always their own software that breaks by the way in our environment. In t he past we could uninstall the specific patch and keep secure with the rest. Now it's all or nothing. I can also see the benefit of it, but the drawbacks weigh more for me.

Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:58 pm
by mkaec
RGijsen wrote:...Personnaly I not in favour of this constant cumulative update system. Every month something breaks...

I think the cumulative update approach is far superior to what they were doing with Windows 7/Windows Server 2008 R2. They would diagnose and fix the bug and then release it as a hotfix only. That means many systems out there are running with numerous known bugs.

Here is an example: The task scheduler has a bug in which the "Run task as soon as possible after a scheduled start is missed" option doesn't work. This would be a good fix to release into Windows Update.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... er-2008-r2

This situation was created because the support model used to be that they released hotfixes for the immediate need and then later released a service pack containing all the fixes. Microsoft stopped releasing services packs, but didn't correct the support model to actually deploy the bug fixes to regular systems until Windows 8 was released.

Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:43 am
by Mike Resseler
@RGijsen,

I didn't saw that delta update yet. That is interesting so thanks for that. I'm going to look at it. 700 MB is still a lot so I am not sure what is exactly in there.

@Mark

I agree with you, and it is just a matter of getting used to it (And yes @Rgijsen, MSFT does need to step up its game in releasing better updates but the thought is good). I still see too many 2012R2 hosts out there where the admin claims that they are fully up-to-date but backup fails. Simply checking if the hotfixes are installed mostly solves the issue, but those hotfixes never made it to Windows Update so it is a manual process...

Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:44 am
by RGijsen
Sure, I agree the idea behind cumulative updates are good, but then they shouldn't break our environment every single month. That's my main complaint. Every single month something breaks. With KB3216755 it was SQL. With KB4013429 it was Veeam and MS Dynamics CRM. Not fixed with the next KB4015438. Dynamics (an MS product) was only fixed in KB4016635. That's another 2GB of updates further. Now I don't mind bandwidth or anything, but these cumulative updates take ages to install, and after that TiWorker eats one cpu for anything between 0 and two hours or so. And apart from one or two of the cumulative fixed we've had something break every single month, and usually it's MS own programs that stop working, like AppV.

Now while I like the idea of 'when they now fix it, at least the fix ends up on all machines'. True, but we are a very small company. No MS Premier account. That means when I log a case with MS, we first have to answer a buttload of useless questions over and over again and upload several gigabytes of logfiles. Maybe the issue then gets accepted, sometimes they even state the businesscase is too small to fix it for us. That means even if the issue is accepted, it takes months before a fix is released. We have several MS hotfixes on our account, but most of them took 9 - 15 months to create.
So yeah, for us it was definitely better to be able to uninstall a specific patch, and keep the rest updated.

Now ontopic again :)

Re: KB4013429 breaks Hyper-V 2016 backup, BSOD loop on unins

Veeam LogoPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:14 pm
by bjackson@agi.com
Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to share that I've patched all of my 2016 cluster nodes with KB4013429. No problems performing backups initially.