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B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Sep 06, 2013 5:24 pm 1 person likes this post

A couple things to add to B&R 7.0

The ability to prioritize jobs (Low, Medium, High, etc.) - i.e., who gets to the storage first or something like that.

Also when viewing Jobs, add a column to show the last time the job was run.



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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Sep 07, 2013 1:10 am

How specifically do you see prioritization working? Medium priority job not starting until there are at least one running High priority job, or something else? What should happen if High priority job kicks in while Medium priority job is running?

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by yizhar » Sep 08, 2013 5:10 pm

STGdb wrote: Also when viewing Jobs, add a column to show the last time the job was run.
Hi.

Me too for the "last time" column, side by side with last status (success/faile/etc).

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by veremin » Sep 09, 2013 8:44 am 1 person likes this post

Also when viewing Jobs, add a column to show the last time the job was run.
Seems like a use case of VeeamOne which starting from version 7 has had the special predefined report called “Latest Backup Job Status” that provides you with status information regarding the most recent runs of your backup and replication jobs. Thanks.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by dellock6 » Sep 09, 2013 8:52 am

Gostev wrote:How specifically do you see prioritization working? Medium priority job not starting until there are at least one running High priority job, or something else? What should happen if High priority job kicks in while Medium priority job is running?
IMHO, the first case. And also, when running parallel processing and having many proxies with the ability to run 3-4 cuncurrent jobs each, I see many jobs are all started and kept open, and I see inside a job a VM for example is completed, and others are pending, because another job was started, and so on. The single VM and VMDK processing is faster, but the overall job completion time is longer sometimes. If I need to do a restore or whatever task involving the backup files, this is locked for longer times by the backup job itself.

Would be better (for me, obviously) to have parallel processing starting and trying to finish the same job as fast as possible, before moving to another job.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Sep 20, 2013 11:47 am

Gostev wrote:How specifically do you see prioritization working? Medium priority job not starting until there are at least one running High priority job, or something else? What should happen if High priority job kicks in while Medium priority job is running?

Sorry - been away for a few days.

I see prioritization working like it does with other backup solutions. If multiple jobs start at the same time then the higher priority wins and goes first. With multiple sites (i.e., with multiple Exchange mailbox servers say), it would be a benefit to prioritize which ones go first (i.e., Lower, Low, Medium, High, Higher). This fits with one server per backup job (where you back up the core servers every few hours based upon time zones, etc.) and you back up other servers (like non-critical servers) only once a day. Same would go with SQL, SharePoint, DRS shares, etc. Prioritizing individual jobs would be a benefit (especially when combined with prioritizing servers within a job).

If a medium is already running then it finishes (even if a high starts while a medium is running). If it is that much of a priority for a high job to stop a medium job then the admin needs to pause the medium to allow the high to run (or adjust the start times). That's how other backup apps do it.


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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Sep 20, 2013 11:52 am

THe more columns that you can view in (what I call the "dashboard") the better. Job duration, last completion time, etc. The data is right at your fingertips and available for immediate processing (versus having to examine a report). Time is too valuable to constantly have to do something like that every morning.


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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by RMullis » Sep 23, 2013 1:14 pm

I agree with job prioritization and would like to add the ability to pause a job and the big one, being able to backup a physical system. We have an Oracle RAC system comprised of 2 physical servers connected to share data-source so I have had to create a virtual Backup Exec server so i could back the servers and database up to disk and then I can use Veeam to backup to tape (if anyone has a better idea PLEASE let me know).

I would like to say; great job on the fantastic enhancements in version 7!!

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by dellock6 » Sep 24, 2013 7:21 am

The ability to pause backup jobs is an idea that comes out regularly on the forums, but the problem is always the same: how do you deal with the open vSphere snapshot when the backup job is paused? Are you willing to leave the VM in that state for a long time?

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Sep 24, 2013 3:16 pm

I like the idea of pausing a job also.

Yes, I would be willing to leave a VM in the "backup" state with a snapshot for as long as needed. As an admin, I understand the ramifications of pausing the job (and leaving the snap) - typically pausing a VM backup job is only needed in an emergency anyway. I would think that most won't pause backup jobs on a regular basis.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by RMullis » Sep 25, 2013 4:22 pm

I concur.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist - part Deux

Post by STGdb » Sep 25, 2013 6:26 pm

Another feature would be the ability to launch the restore wizard by right-clicking on the backup job itself. And the ability to view the restores performed for the past 24 hours - in the left pane (like you can view the backup job history for the past 24 hours) - Success, Warning, Failed

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist - part Deux

Post by Gostev » Sep 25, 2013 6:43 pm

STGdb wrote:Another feature would be the ability to launch the restore wizard by right-clicking on the backup job itself.
Backup job's context menu is already way overloaded, so this would be problematic...
STGdb wrote:And the ability to view the restores performed for the past 24 hours - in the left pane (like you can view the backup job history for the past 24 hours) - Success, Warning, Failed
Restore audit report is available in Veeam ONE. Again, my goal is not to overwhelm B&R admin UI with non-essential side functionality. Not only this turn the product's UI into Boeing 747 cockpit, but it would also be really hard to match the usability and functionality provided by specialized, mature reporting product.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist and Features

Post by STGdb » Sep 26, 2013 3:47 pm

Agreed - you don't want things to be overloaded. But the difference is what is useful to an admin and what isn't (that's what you want to make available to the user). It would be helpful to view the left pane and see whether a restore has been completed or not (that way it isn't duplicated by another admin) rather than having to run a report on it. The function of VEEAM is to provide VM DR (disaster recovery i.e., backup and restore) - restore isn't a side function; it is critical. And there is plenty of room available in the window (plus it makes the product better). Running a report to find the information is like working at the government and attending a meeting about having fewer meetings (which happens way too often).

BTW - One last request - estimated time remaining for active jobs

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by smendoza » Nov 01, 2013 6:22 pm

We're predominantly a vSphere 5.1 Enterprise Plus shop and we have Veeam B&R Enterprise Plus licensed for all of the servers. It would be nice if I could add the handful of vSphere Essentials servers that I have into the same Veeam B&R console, but only the "free" options be available for those servers since they don't need a license for "free" mode. Otherwise, I'm stuck with installing another installation of B&R onto another server just to handle those. I could understand if this functionality was not available at all tiers of licensing, but since B&R Enterprise Plus is the top tier, it would be nice for it to have the option.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Nov 01, 2013 6:30 pm

+1 @ smendoza

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 01, 2013 10:52 pm

I don't really understand what smendoza is saying here. What is the problem of adding those vSphere Essentials servers into the same Veeam B&R console?

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Nov 02, 2013 12:33 pm

I think what smendoza is asking for is the ability to use a single installation of licensed VEEAM B&R to back up both licensed and free versions of VMware (rather than needing an install of licensed VEEAM Enterprise Plus to back up a vSphere cluster and a separate VEEAM B&R "free version" install to back up the free VMware install(s)).

In other words, why can't we use the same licensed single-install of VEEAM B&R to back up both licensed and free versions of VMware (without having to purchase additional VEEAM licenses to back up the free VMware instances)?

VMware vSphere cluster - say 4 CPU
VMware "free" ESXI - say 2 CPU
CPU license count for VEEAM - requires 6 CPU

(right? - if not then I would like to request that feature because I have a mixed environment of VMware systems - it would be nice to manage a mixed VMware environment from one licensed VEEAM instance)


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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 02, 2013 12:46 pm

STGdb wrote:In other words, why can't we use the same licensed single-install of VEEAM B&R to back up both licensed and free versions of VMware (without having to purchase additional VEEAM licenses to back up the free VMware instances)?
Well...the only reason you can't do it is that ESXi free cannot be backed up due to API restrictions from VMware, no matter what Veeam B&R edition is being used.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Nov 02, 2013 1:04 pm

Is that still a restriction in B&R 7? With a mixed environment, I can use VEEAM B&R v7 to run a "Quick migration" of a VM from a free VMware instance and migrate the VM to my vSphere cluster without any issue. When I try to run a backup of the same source VM, I get a message in VEEAM (task failed: Error: Not enough licenses) - something like that.

Isn't a "migration" the same as a "backup" - without being able to "restore" a migrated VM? If you can read the data from a source VM on a free VMware instance to migrate the VM, can't that same process be used to read the VM data to back the VM up?

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 02, 2013 1:15 pm

Ability to work with free ESXi depends on specific vSphere version and build. VMware keeps breaking, fixing, and breaking the limitations periodically. There is a big thread around here with more details on this one. In any case, even if you find this working in your specific setup, you are on your own because Veeam does not support nor promotes the ability to do anything at all with free ESXi (this is per VMware request to us). vSphere Essentials or better edition is required, as per our System Requirements.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 02, 2013 1:17 pm

STGdb wrote:In other words, why can't we use the same licensed single-install of VEEAM B&R to back up both licensed and free versions of VMware (without having to purchase additional VEEAM licenses to back up the free VMware instances)?
You certainly can do that, as long as you are not trying to backup VMs from unlicensed hosts. Other than that, feel free to add as many vSphere hosts of any editions to your Veeam B&R install as you like.

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Backing up both free/paid VMware hosts with same VEEAM insta

Post by STGdb » Nov 04, 2013 1:52 pm

If I understand properly, we should now be able to use out licensed VEEAM product to back up free VMware host as well as purchased VMware host instances - using the same VEEAM installation? I'm not sure what you mean by "unlicensed hosts"? With the free version of VMware, you are given a license key to use (for free) - so it is licensed (per say). Do you mean VEEAM won't back up VM's from the free versions of VMware or do you mean it will back them up as long as you enter your free license key nto the free VMware host system?

The KB http://www.veeam.com/kb1435 only reports it doesn't work up to 6.x
This is a known issue in version 4.x, 5.x, and 6.x of Veeam Backup & Replication
...so backups of free VMware should work with VEEAM B&R v7 (right?) - as long as you have enough VEEAM licenses (or you get the license error in VEEAM)


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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by dellock6 » Nov 04, 2013 3:29 pm

The license for unlock the free version of a ESXi server has nothing to do with the concept of "licensed" vSphere needed in order to be supported by VADP libraries, is simply an "unlock code".

Put it straight simple: if you did not pay for the VMware license, that would not be supported by Veeam. And is a VMware limitation by the way.

What Anton was saying (and it's something that comes around from time to time in these forums) is that sometimes VMware had problems in locking the VADP libraries on the free ESXi servers, so it happened customers had been able to run backups against it. However, do not rely on this lucky situation, because:
1- VMware can at any time close the error with a simple patch (already happened in the past)
2- Veeam is not going to support free ESXi even if that specific version has VADP libraries unlocked.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by STGdb » Nov 04, 2013 3:52 pm

Thanks for the details. I guess the KB needs to be updated to include v7 (or rather to point out that the feature is excluded from v7 as well).

My thought is that if VEEAM can migrate a VM from a free ESXI host then it should be able to backup that same VM as well. I'm not sure what the difference is (behind the scenes) between migrating a VM versus backing one up. Granted there are differences if you wanted to do an incremental backup, and you may lose some things like application-aware processing if you wanted to do a restore, but my licensed VEEAM install should be able to "read" the data from the source VM and at least perform a FULL backup of the source VM. Heck, I can get the same results as a "backup" (i.e., a saved copy of the original source VM) if I choose to run a daily Quick Migrations of the VM from within VEEAM. Right? And a restore would be to simply "migrate" the entire VM back to the original source (overwriting it).

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Migration should not work either, because it requires that we are able to programmatically create source VM snapshot, and this is one of the functions that is (normally) locked down in the API in case of free ESXi. If it works with your free ESXi and B&R/VDDK version combination, great! But then again, let me repeat myself:
Gostev wrote:In any case, even if you find this working in your specific setup, you are on your own because Veeam does not support nor promotes the ability to do anything at all with free ESXi (this is per VMware request to us). vSphere Essentials or better edition is required, as per our System Requirements.
And please, let's not hijack this thread further - there is the dedicated discussion on free ESXi support.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by smendoza » Nov 06, 2013 5:00 pm

I was referring to a mixed environment of VMware vSphere Enterprise Plus and VMware vSphere Essentials (not the free version of ESXi). As it stands today, I need one install of Veeam B&R with the proper licenses to backup the vSphere Enterprise Plus servers. I need another separate install of Veeam B&R running in Free mode to backup the vSphere Essentials servers. I was hoping to have an option to using a single Veeam B&R console where I assigned full licenses to the vSphere Enterprise Plus hosts and the Essentials hosts would operate under the "free" mode restrictions.

Sorry if I wasn't clear the first go round.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 06, 2013 8:05 pm

Got it. I will keep this use case in mind for the future versions. I do not see any reasons not to allow free VeeamZIP on any host, even unlicensed one.

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by Gostev » Nov 08, 2013 11:03 am

Hi Sonny - I checked on 7.0, and it already works the way you want. VeeamZIP does not perform any license check, and is able to backup VMs from unlicensed hosts just fine. Are you seeing a different behavior?

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Re: B&R 7.0 Wishlist

Post by smendoza » Nov 08, 2013 3:42 pm

I just tried it again by adding the host directly and created a job pointing specifically through the host to get to the VM. Previously I was adding the vCenter that manages the Essentials hosts so I wanted to rule that out. I created a job for that specific VM and when I run the backup job I get "Task failed Error: Not enough licenses". It does the exact same thing when the VM is selected by going through the vCenter that manages the same host.

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