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Igor N. M.
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Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 23, 2013 1:00 am

Hi all.

I have a small server. Only 3 VMs, 2 Windows 2008 R2 and one Linux.
My server is a HP ML110 G7 with 4 HDs 1Tb and 1 usb external driver w/ 1Tb
Now i testing VMWare vSphere 5.1 and Veeam 6.5 w/ patch 3.

I have some problems...
1) My VM one (Windows 2008 R2) have softraid mirrored in all disks (Have 3 disks on VM); The backup runs ok, but when i test the restore of a file, the veeam don't display drivers 'D:', 'E:'.... Show only "C:". But if i teste restore of a disc, veeam display all of my 3 drivers (I selected only the frist "phisical" drive of VM to be backuped)

What i doing worng? (The ML110 G7 don't suport hard raid and buy a fisical adapter is out of mind) Or what config i need to do?

2) In other scenario, veeam create 26 snapshots of one VM!!!!! The vCenter don't see any snapshot. I created a snap on vCenter and "deleted all", but others 26 snpas is on... I run a backup of this VM but don't solve the problem. And restore too.

veremin
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by veremin » Oct 23, 2013 8:00 am

What i doing worng? (The ML110 G7 don't suport hard raid and buy a fisical adapter is out of mind) Or what config i need to do?
Could elaborate on you scenario a little bit, since it’s not that clear?

You have software raid (3 virtual disks in raid 1) and, using disk exclusions, you backup only 1 out of 3 virtual disks. When you’re trying to restore a file only C:\ drive is shown (what method do you use? Windows FLR or Other FLR?).

When you’re trying to restore a virtual hard disk, all virtual disks are shown. (what method do you use? Restore virtual hard disk?)

Right?
2) In other scenario, veeam create 26 snapshots of one VM!!!!! The vCenter don't see any snapshot. I created a snap on vCenter and "deleted all", but others 26 snpas is on... I run a backup of this VM but don't solve the problem. And restore too.
This’s not expected, since even leftover snapshots should be automatically deleted during next job run. So, it might be worth opening a ticket with our support team and letting them investigate it directly.

Thanks.

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 23, 2013 2:39 pm

Hi.

For frist question:
The hardware:
HP ML110 G7
16 Gb DDR3 ECC
4x HD 1Tb (7.2k, 64Mb, Sata2) (without raid)
1x SD Card 8Gb (ESX resides on)

Software host:
ESX 5.1 (By HP)
The ESX is installed on SD Card

Guests:
(1) One Linux Ubuntu > One VMDK on frist HD
(2) One Windows 2008 R2 SP1 64 (System and files (C:, D:, E:)) > Have 3 VMDKs on HD 2 and more 3 VMDKs on HD 4. In this system, i have softraid mirrored VMDKs of HD 2 on HD 4
(3) One Windows 2008 R2 SP1 64 (vCenter and Veeam 6.5 path 3) > 2 VMDKs (System, Files) + one usb HD for backup

On backup job of VM 2 i have selected only discs of HD 2. (In my mind, have no sense to backup HD 1 and 2 if the content is same)

To restore files, i click on disk and select "Restore Guest Files (Windows)". Show only drive "C:".
To restore VMDK, i click on disk and selecte "Restore VM Hard disks". Show all drivers on DS HD2 (scsi 1:1, 1:2, 1:3) (Normal)
On folder of backup job, the backup size is 700Gb. Its ok. My vm have 700 of data.

veremin
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by veremin » Oct 23, 2013 2:52 pm

To restore files, i click on disk and select "Restore Guest Files (Windows)". Show only drive "C:".
Have you tried to use “Other OS” type of restore? Does it make any difference?
I selected only the frist "phisical" drive of VM to be backuped.
This is still unclear to me. Do you mean you're using disk exclusions?

Thanks.

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 23, 2013 7:23 pm

(I don't have suport case ID)

I tried now "Other OS". Using this method i see the files on 'drivers' "D:" and "E:". Why with the other method dosen't work? It's more fast and simple...

Yes. I use exclusions. Let me explain:
In VM i have this discs: (HD = Datastore (In this case, each datastore is an HD))

SCSI 1:1: vmdk 80 GB on HD2
SCSI 1:2: vmdk 600 GB on HD2
SCSI 1:3: vmdk 350 GB on HD2

SCSI 2:1: vmdk 80 GB on HD4
SCSI 2:2: vmdk 600 GB on HD4
SCSI 2:3: vmdk 350 GB on HD4

On Veeam, i selected the VM and add only the SCSI 1:1, 1:2 and 1:3 to the backuped.
Backup Job "VM FS" -> 'Virtual Machines' -> 'Exclusions' -> 'Disks' -> (Select 'VM FS'), press 'Edit' -> "Selected disks" -> Selected SCSI 1:0 to SCSI 1:15.

Thanks for your reply

Vitaliy S.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 23, 2013 9:02 pm

Other OS wizard uses a different engine to read VM disks data, and it looks like the disk configuration you have inside the Guest OS is not supported by native FLR wizard. BTW, what type of disks are you using?

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 24, 2013 12:52 am

Vitaliy S. wrote:Other OS wizard uses a different engine to read VM disks data, and it looks like the disk configuration you have inside the Guest OS is not supported by native FLR wizard. BTW, what type of disks are you using?
In VMware, vmdk zeroedtick (Thick provision); In Windows NTFS w/ MBR (Not GPT). This is a very basic system.
For others VMs without raid i have no problem.

veremin
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by veremin » Oct 24, 2013 9:18 am

You might want to open a ticket with support team and let them confirm whether or not such a deployment is supported by Windows FLR (looks like it isn’t).

Thanks.

dellock6
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by dellock6 » Oct 24, 2013 10:37 am

Slightly OT, but even if the ML110 is not officially supported by VMware, why don't you add a cheap raid controller like the H200, create a hardware raid, and get rid of this complex guest raid? Both VMware and Veeam would get benefit from a simpler confuguration...

Luca.
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Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 24, 2013 3:26 pm

dellock6 wrote:Slightly OT, but even if the ML110 is not officially supported by VMware, why don't you add a cheap raid controller like the H200, create a hardware raid, and get rid of this complex guest raid? Both VMware and Veeam would get benefit from a simpler confuguration...

Luca.
H200 is for Dell.

I'm in Brazil. A raid card here is very expensive. At least $ 550 and my clients do not want to invest that much. This server has already cost more than R$ 6,500 ($ 3,500). And I'm considered crazy by using server and not desktop(!!!)... Technology here is quite difficult, there must create "solutions" so..

I know it is the best and would love to do, but the cost is too high and client don't see the beneficts, only costs more costs...

But i open to sugestions. If exist an cheap raid for ML110 G7.... I like to test it.

Thanks

dellock6
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by dellock6 » Oct 24, 2013 3:47 pm

Sorry, I was meaning E200.
Whatever, I understand your reasons, have you looked at LSI Megaraid products? Many HP/IBM/Dell controllers at the end are nothing more than LSI rebranded cards, and some low model with small cache battery and simple raid 0/1/5 are really cheap, so many even on ebay for less than 150 usd. For example the 9220/8i is quite good for the size of your storage, you can even find it rebranded as IBM M-1015.

Luca.
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yizhar
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by yizhar » Oct 24, 2013 6:49 pm 2 people like this post

Hi.

I suggest the following:

* Fix the stale snapshots by shutting down the VM and trying to consolidate disks.

* Get rid of the software raid, as it can cause some troubles such as:
The snapshots problem you currently have - which will probably get worse if not fixed!
Veeam restore problems
You will also have problems after power failure - Windows will try to resync all mirrors at the same time.
This will thrash both physical SATA disks and response times will be bad for several long hours, just because of unclean shutdown.

* Instead of software raid - you can use replication.

So - you can:
remove all mirrors inside the guest VM.
remove all disks from HD4 (keep the VM only on single disk HD2).
Configure replication from HD2 to HD4, running once per hour for example.

You can also configure replication for other VM.

Oh - and one more tip:
For the backup - use a SATA disk as primary backup repository, and USB disk only as target for secondary backup copy.
Best is to have a separated dedicated backup server (a regular PC with large SATA disk and USB3 controller will be great),
but if you use a VM, make sure to use SATA and not USB as primary repository for daily backups.

Yizhar

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 28, 2013 11:04 pm 1 person likes this post

Hi All.

Yizhar, thanks for the suggestions. To solve the problem of the snapshot, i shutdown the machine and created a new snapshot. After consolided disks and removed all. (In other host, i move the VM from this datastore to anoter. Its don't work. So i used the same solution).

For backup witch softraid, its more simple! I backuped all disks, widthout exclusions. Take more time to do frist backup, but are more fast to do a incremental backup. And size? Its same! Need no more space! Now all resotre types are aviable! :D

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Oct 29, 2013 1:41 am

I will do further testing yet. Post the results soon.

Ps.: I use an external HD USB 2.0 to backup VMs. The thoughput is on USB 2.0. Now i test the tip of Yizhar. I do a backup to a SATA HD (In this case, a VMDK on a single SATA2 7.2k). After backup, copy data to the USB HD.

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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by yizhar » Oct 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Hi.

Thanks for the info - keep updating.
Yizhar

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Nov 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Hi all.

I testing 2 servers HP ML110 G7 w. 4x 1TB HD 7.2k Sata 2 64Mb, 16Gb DDR ECC and 1x 2Tb USB 3.0

On first server, have configured a raid 4 HDs. (Via BT110 (Softraid))
On second, no raid.

On first server, have configured on windows 2008 r2 sp1 a softraid. On backup, have all disks selected. The backup of 450Gb to a USB 3.0 drive is fast. But, on raid, the first disk is backuped in one hour. The second plex take 2 hours. But the size don't increase, only time is more than if i backup only the frist plex.

On second server, have configured a softraid in windows 2008 r2 (equal to first server). The backup of same size to a USB 3.0, take 18 hours!! And througtput resides on "C:" (vmware) and "X:" (USB 3.0). In this next weekend i want to make a raid via hard controler.

On first server, the disks are 'SAS' on vmware (I belive because have a raid configured on BT110 (Fakeraid)). On second, disks are 'IDE'! I hope, after the change, the vmware view SAS disks, same than first server.

I keep updating.
Suport case ID .

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Nov 21, 2013 1:39 pm 1 person likes this post

Hi.

I configured the second server with SATA Raid and the disk performance was increased. Now, full backup takes 15 hours to process 822 Gb and a incremental backup take between one hour and 30 minutes to be conclued.

Its normal now.

Igor N. M.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by Igor N. M. » Nov 21, 2013 1:49 pm 1 person likes this post

Support ID:

Hi to all.
My problems was gone!

For softraid: I backuped all discs. The size don't increase. The time increased from 10 to 12 hours. All restore options are available.
For '26 snapshots on VM': Poweroff the VM, create a new snapshot, consolided the disks and removed all snapshots.
For backup performance: The issue is on "IDE mode" on disk controller. After changed to 'SATA Raid' mode, the performance was increased 2x times. Now, the throughput is on USB disk. I belive that one external SATA drive or gigabit network HD is more effective but i don't have this equipaments. But now the backup time is good.

Thanks to all!

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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by veremin » Nov 21, 2013 2:04 pm

Hi, Igor, glad to hear that everything now works as expected. Also, thank you for sharing the resolution with the community; much appreciated.

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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by yizhar » Nov 21, 2013 9:30 pm

Igor N. M. wrote: I configured the second server with SATA Raid and the disk performance was increased. Now, full backup takes 15 hours to process 822 Gb and a incremental backup take between one hour and 30 minutes to be conclued.
Hi
15 hours to fully backup 822 gb - seems to slow.
A USB3 external disk can have about 40MB/s which is more then 100GB per hour.
I'm glad you solved the major problems, yet think that you still have some improvements to look for.

Yizhar

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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by dellock6 » Nov 22, 2013 11:49 am

Probably a USB3 device can go up to 40MBs on a sequential file copy, not sure it can reach the same speed on a backup activity, especially on reversed incremental.

Luca.
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Re: Backup of VM w/ softraid

Post by yizhar » Nov 22, 2013 12:33 pm

Hi.

Luca is correct.
However Igor mentioned that FULL backup takes 15 hours to process 822 GB, which seems too long to me.

Yizhar

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