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brlomba1
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Nimble ideal setup

Post by brlomba1 » Oct 18, 2018 2:36 pm

Another nimble thread...

We have 4 nimble arrays. A production and a repository at each site. We use backup from storage snapshots to our repository array and it works okay. Direct SAN access, ~300MB/s with a virtual proxy. Then we replicate those repositories to their opposing sites via nimble replication.

A feature we would really like to use at each site is backup from secondary snapshot. My understanding is The primary array will take a snap and replicate that to the backup array, then Veeam will take a backup of the replicated snapshot, thus offloading load from the primary array. That is all really great.. but then how would i get that data off the repository array (which at that point is essentially a snapshot backup array) at the primary and replicate it to the secondary site?

ps... being able to directly attach images to this form would be really helpful...

foggy
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by foggy » Oct 18, 2018 6:00 pm

Direct SAN access
I suppose you mean backup from storage snapshots, not direct SAN access, right?

I'm not sure what and where you would like to have. Do you want to create Veeam B&R compressed backup files using secondary snapshot (residing on site's local backup array) as a source, place it on a different LUN on the same array and then get replicated to the remote site's backup array?

brlomba1
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by brlomba1 » Oct 18, 2018 8:11 pm

So stepping back... just so I'm understanding this all correctly

Nimble 1 = prod array
Nimble 2 = backup array
Nimble 3 = DR array

This is the job log:
1. Job started at 10/18/2018 2:36:34 PM
2. Building VMs list 00:02
3. Found matching replicated copies of Nimble snapshots 00:02
4. Queued for processing at 10/18/2018 2:36:56 PM
5. Required backup infrastructure resources have been assigned
6. Primary storage snapshot created successfully 00:00
7. Snapshot transfer succeeded 16:13
8. Job finished at 10/18/2018 2:54:18 PM

This is an individual VM in that job log
VM 1. Using guest interaction proxy veeamone01 (Different subnet)
VM 2. Inventorying guest system 00:15
VM 3. Preparing guest for hot backup 00:06
VM 4. Releasing guest 00:00
VM 5. Creating VM snapshot
VM 6. Getting list of guest file system local users 00:00
VM 7. Truncating transaction logs 00:02
VM 8. Removing VM snapshot 00:02
VM 9. Processing finished at 10/18/2018 2:38:10 PM

Step VM 5 - A snapshot is taken on the server. I'm assuming this is Veeam creating a crash consistent backup and beginning application aware processing. I'm assuming all this info is stored in the actual Nimble (nimble 1) snapshot after all VMs are processed? and then replicated to Nimble 2.

Step 6-7 - Veeam creates a volume snapshot on the Nimble 1 that holds all the VMs that were snapped and replicates that snapshot to Nimble 2.

Following the 3 2 1 rule,
3 Copies of data - I could only do 2 copies this way, between Nimble 1 and Nimble 2.
Stores copies on two different media - irrelevant with this setup
Keep one backup copy offsite - False. You can't replicate or copy the snaps/volumes in any way to a 3rd device at this time with Nimble.

foggy
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by foggy » Oct 19, 2018 3:06 pm

Step VM 5 - A snapshot is taken on the server. I'm assuming this is Veeam creating a crash consistent backup and beginning application aware processing. I'm assuming all this info is stored in the actual Nimble (nimble 1) snapshot after all VMs are processed? and then replicated to Nimble 2.
Not exactly, first Veeam B&R performs application-aware processing inside guest OS (steps VM 1- VM 4), then calls VMware to create a VM snapshot (VM 5) and then triggers storage snapshot containing consistent VM state. Seems you're doing snapshot-only job, not regular backup, so this storage snapshot is then replicated to the backup array.
Step 6-7 - Veeam creates a volume snapshot on the Nimble 1 that holds all the VMs that were snapped and replicates that snapshot to Nimble 2.
Correct.
Following the 3 2 1 rule,
3 Copies of data - I could only do 2 copies this way, between Nimble 1 and Nimble 2.
Stores copies on two different media - irrelevant with this setup
Keep one backup copy offsite - False. You can't replicate or copy the snaps/volumes in any way to a 3rd device at this time with Nimble.
First of all, seems you're not doing backups. Please note that storage snapshot cannot be considered a real backup, even if you replicate it to a secondary array (as any data corruption on the primary storage will be immediately replicated onto the secondary one). What you need to do is backup from the storage snapshot to a backup repository (1st copy). You can leave storage snapshot residing on the storage as well (using secondary destination), in addition to real backups. Then you should use backup copy jobs to copy backups to some other storage (2d copy) and then some sort of (ideally) air-gapped backups like tape. This will comply with the 3-2-1 rule.

brlomba1
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by brlomba1 » Oct 19, 2018 3:35 pm

First of all, seems you're not doing backups. Please note that storage snapshot cannot be considered a real backup, even if you replicate it to a secondary array (as any data corruption on the primary storage will be immediately replicated onto the secondary one)
That's actually not true. Storage snapshots replicate based on the schedule you set with nimble. It can be 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week. It also keeps x amount of snapshots so you can revert to a point in time. Nimble doesn't do continual replication of data like zerto or vsphere replication. If what your saying is true then what is even the point of storage backed snapshot backups with veeam? The article I link to below doesn't mention anything about repositories.

I'm already doing traditional Direct storage access backups to iSCSI repositories but attempting to understand what veeam sales is trying to sell us here as a feature of backup from secondary array snapshots by configuring this test job...

In the end... what is the point of "Backing up from the secondary storage" (causing no production load) if I still need to do backups to traditional repositories from the primary nimble (causing load)?
https://www.veeam.com/blog/nimble-stora ... guide.html

foggy
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by foggy » Oct 19, 2018 3:54 pm

The point of backup from storage snapshot in general is in VM spending less time on a VMware snapshot (please compare the workflows outlined on this page). You can configure your traditional jobs making backups to repositories to use storage snapshots as a source. Backup jobs can use either storage snapshot on the primary or secondary storage as a source for VM data. The point of backup from secondary storage, is in reducing the load on the primary one - in this case storage snapshot is created on the primary one, then replicated to the secondary storage and then VM data is copied from the snapshot on secondary storage to a backup repository. Hope this makes sense.

brlomba1
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by brlomba1 » Oct 19, 2018 4:03 pm

The point of backup from secondary storage, is in reducing the load on the primary one - in this case storage snapshot is created on the primary one, then replicated to the secondary storage and then VM data is copied from the snapshot on secondary storage to a backup repository. Hope this makes sense.
But how do you configure it to backup from secondary storage backup jobs to repositories?
You configure:
storage - backup repository - Nimble Snapshot (Primary storage snapshot only)
Secondary Target - Nimble Snapshot Replicated Copy

No where can you point to a repository nor can you do a backup copy job of a job configured like that

foggy
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by foggy » Oct 19, 2018 4:07 pm 1 person likes this post

Please review the step-by-step configuration procedure. You configure a regular repository at the Storage step of the job wizard and select the 'Configure secondary destinations for this job' check box. At the Secondary Target step, you select a secondary storage array (Nimble Snapshot Replicated Copy, in your case) and select the 'Use as the data source' check box.

brlomba1
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by brlomba1 » Oct 19, 2018 4:21 pm

That works... but holy cow that is confusing when you select "configure secondary destinations for this job" assuming that is another location data will be stored... not that it is where backups will happen...

foggy
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Re: Nimble ideal setup

Post by foggy » Oct 19, 2018 4:31 pm

In this case it is both another location where data will be stored and where backups will happen. ;)

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