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mcz
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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by mcz »

Thanks David! Can you please contact me when you find time regarding case #02563530? I'm not sure if I had mentioned my suggestions what could be improved. Thanks!

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by Gostev » 2 people like this post

ITP-Stan wrote: May 30, 2022 7:37 am I do wonder if the support staff that worked from Russia is still on the job, because of the war and with Veeam now being owned by U.S. based investor company.
Indeed, last month our CEO decided to cease all operations in Russia.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by chalkynz »

david.domask wrote: Jun 01, 2022 6:55 am Thank you so much for the kind words Michael!

We really do try, and I'm not ashamed to admit when we have faults and will gladly own them, but more importantly, I want to fix them :) So the cases are invaluable for me to be able to check and make the corrections when we do need to.
It is great that you're looking into this, as long as you take the cases given and extrapolate out to the wider issue, it would be a mistake to think this is happening on selected cases only. People really love your product, and as you can see from above, they are almost apologetic about criticising! Support has been generally bad for a couple of years now, 'send me logs' is not a great way to meet SLA. Support teams go silent for days, and other times treat you like some testing lab where you have endless time to go and try various suggestions. They do need to consider that customers often only have one environment: Prod.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by pesos »

Hate to pile on but our experience has been the same. We almost gave up on hardened repo due to the problems encountered and poor documentation/communication in general and specifically on related support tix. As others have said Veeam is not alone in the industry - qc and support is absolute sh*te everywhere these days it seems. Incredibly frustrating when our team has to spend dozens of hours a week simply battling Microsoft/Meraki/you name it on basic product functionality.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

@chalkynz, glad to help, and naturally, it doesn't stop with just the case, it tends to be a full review of the engineer and also of the situations. For example, the TC's case demonstrated that we did find both a lack of clear guidance for our non-Capacity tier teams on handling Capacity Tier issues (case was being handled somewhat incorrectly by our multi-language team) and also a few very old bits of outdated guidance that need to be [nuked], so already we're working to improve the resources for engineers on that and also more clear guidelines when a Capacity Tier case is beyond a simple "how-to" question or configuration mistake and needs to be transferred.

For the SLA comments, in general we try to use as much information as possible to assess the issue, but if logs are missing/lacking, we're quite limited and sometimes logs are required. While I understand in some cases it's preferred to have a call, not all errors and issues are immediately apparent and do require some research. Veeam's versatility (working with thousands if not tens of thousands) of configurations also introduces a lot of different points of failure, and going in blind to try to fix it often is not the best use of your time.

Feel free to PM me some cases you have concerns on and I'll check them out, but just a general reminder to everyone for cases, be sure you're including logs like the case portal tells you when making a case. For general job failures, use the first radio option when following https://veeam.com/kb1832 and select the failing job; it is the best way. For restore cases and other operations, the engineer may need to request additional logging based on the infrastructure components at play and the issue circumstances.

@pesos as noted earlier in the thread, please share some examples in PM.
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by pesos »

Thanks David, and we do our best to "stick with the basics" and keep variables and points of failure to a minimum... I can appreciate the sprawling nature of what you have to support veeam across... that was one of the most frustrating things about the hardened repo debacle... is that Veeam themselves recommended using ubuntu to us and ubuntu (and other modern distros that handle permissions differently evidently) ended up being the source of the problems (sort of). I am not nor do I care to become a linux guru, and it was frustrating to not have straightforward and up-to-date documentation from veeam on how to properly implement a core v11 feature.

microsoft-hyper-v-f25/can-t-get-hardene ... 74800.html

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by janezk » 4 people like this post

Hi,

We have quite bg and complex environment and I've had some very difficult cases and all were handeled as expected and we always came to a solution. In two or three cases we even discovered a bug.
In one occasion I have opened a severity 1 case and I got a response in 20 minutes and in less than an hour my issue was resolved. Afterwards the case was forwarded to lower level team to monitor for a few days if everything is ok.
I am certain that all my cases were handeled in Sankt Petersburg. I hope that Veeam will be able to keep most of the expertise in the house on other support center locations, as support in SP was for sure the best in Veeam organisation.

BR Janez

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

Hey pesos,

Thanks for sharing the case. Indeed, this looks like it was an oversight in the documentation where a specific umask was assumed; we ended up documenting this here: https://www.veeam.com/kb4250 and also https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... ml?ver=110 (ignore that the article is about RHEL, quite a few hardening guides for linux recommend the same thing so I'll ask we update the article to be more)

I'll look into the case and the surrounding ones, as I saw some of your discussions with the Leadership team and the communication level from the Engineer should not have left such an impression, so likely some coaching is in order.
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by jrbaumann »

CaliMSP wrote: May 30, 2022 4:25 pm I can't agree more! Compared to support back in the day when the company was smaller, the quality of support led me to using it less and less. These days, the support from my viewpoint as a customer looks like this:

1) Responses appear canned most of the time
-- provide logs (sure, that can be helpful)
-- create a new chain (not helpful)
-- check this or that setting
-- links to documentation or KB that was already read 3 times and contains no helpful information
2) Regardless of the level of urgency you set in a ticket, they take longer than the indicated response time.
3) Support techs responding to the ticket switch all the time and go over the same steps, take extra time to figure out what's going on etc.
4) Tickets auto-close without a proper follow up, even though sometimes it's not possible to perform a step support is asking for in a short period of time (this is backups after-all, they are critical)
5) It seems that Tier One doesn't really know the product as well as some customers and while they can point to a particular setting, they don't understand how several settings actually build on each other and what the total effect may be.
6) They always seem to want to work over ticket/email, much more rare over the phone and never (in my experience) actually looking at the system/console remotely via screen-sharing. A week of back and forth could be often saved by just looking at what we are asking you to look at so that you understand what we are seeing and don't ask to go over the same basic steps.

My overall experience is less than satisfactory. It feels like Tier One tries to burry you in canned suggestions until you either give up, show enough persistence where they escalate or actually start digging into it.. At the end of the day OUR OWN engineers end up solving problems after spending hours or days searching online for a rare mention by someone else with a hint towards a possible solution. It's much more likely that we will find a helpful piece of information either in these forums or on Reddit, where Anton or someone else with really deep knowledge of the product posted months if not years ago. At the end we have two internal engineers with lots of veeam experience that we rely on heavily for support than on actual Veeam support.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS EXACTLY.

The numerous days between contact and the switching of support reps is infuriating.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by DeLiriOusNoMaD »

RGijsen wrote: May 30, 2022 7:32 am I can certainly agree with the support getting worse. Especially our current ticket is really a pain in the @ss. They keep asking useless things, want us to do things that very obviously don't relate to the issue at all, and they simply don't read well enough, or they just want to buy time. Only after I told them like 6 times the issue was something completely different as they tried to resolve, they came back with 'ah, then I read it wrong'. It's extremely tedious, and it's a bit like MS support, which usually also is as useful as a solar powered torch. I'm now in T3 with my ticket. Our particular issue is that copy jobs take a huge time before they actually start copying data. They do some disk activity, and then there is an our and a half of a 1mbps data stream from remote to source site. And then it starts copying data at line speed. And now I have to make a TCP dump from that WHOLE thing, which will generate an extreme amount of logs, because support tells me they don't know WHAT data is sent from remote to source?! That's the thing I have issues with; support people that don't know their product, and simply bullying the paying customer with stupid log generation of thing that should be obvious to support.
Now I know sometimes things are more complex than they seem to be, and mostly I do as support asks, just to confirm my own thoughts mostly, but still it's going downhill fast.
ive been noticing the same issue you mention with copying data @1mbps before it starts copying to remote site. ive never seen this before. now that you mention this its got my attention.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by AlexHeylin » 3 people like this post

Wow! Some of that sucks. I have to say I consider Veeam to be virtually the gold standard of support of all the companies I deal with. They don't always get it right - but they always REALLY listen and want to learn and improve both themselves and their products for us the partners and customers. I wish Veeam would buy ConnectWise, that'd change my life - I've got multiple bugs open with CW for 5 years (so far) after I supplied them with a demonstration of the issue and the code to fix / workaround it. Veeam would NEVER do that.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by DeLiriOusNoMaD »

m.novelli wrote: May 30, 2022 10:22 am Support quality getting worse is a widespread issue: Veeam, Microsoft, Dell, most of Vendors are squeezing money from customers to stakeholders, depleting value from Software / Hardware / Support. I'm getting very tired working in IT.

I'm 42 years old but I plan to be out of this IT world by 50

Marco
Since CV Microsoft support went to crap. i literally opened cases, got a phone call back. but after the first call you could not get them back on the phone or email. they would not respond even if i called the support line and asks for a call back. i literally had to open another case to get help with the prior case!!!!

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by BradM2 »

I tried to PM David Domask however the system says I don't have rights to do that because I haven't participated enough. Well that's lame, so I will post my message publically.

Veeam support is abysmal. We had one issue where the tech basically didn't understand the problem and asked "is it plugged in", well not really, but you get my point. After a few days he finally set up a meeting for a remote session to look at the problem but didn't bother to tell us when that was. Then he updated the ticket saying nobody from our end showed up to the meeting. He then rescheduled and did exactly the same thing again. At that point, and over a week later, we went off on support and got a new tech assigned to the case.

I had another incident where we opened a case as a #1 critical down. When I opened the case I clearly explained the problem and uploaded all the usual logs Veeam requests. I got a reply several hours later to check a KB article and that somebody would review my logs. I had already read the KB article, which didn't help. I solved the issue myself a few hours after that. A few days later I get a message, we have reviewed your logs. Right, a little late at this point.

I also filled out the survey with the lowest ranking possible, however that ranking would compliment the tech and the service we got.

Case numbers with issues: 05452193, 05406138, 05380371, 05328403

Oh, and you guys need to stop using WebEx. It's the worst platform of all of them and mostly broken. It won't even work on some of our devices at all.

Oh, and can you get rid of that annoying bot on your webpage that asks if we need help and pops up continually on top of buttons I'm trying to hit. WhoTF designed that.

Oh, and the time it took me to write this post exceeded the timeout of the forum, so when I hit submit, it said I had to log in. Good thing I saved this to the clipboard before pressing submit or I'd have been really pissed off!

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

Hi @BradM2 thank you for listing the cases as requested; I will be PM'ing you to discuss in further detail (just want to avoid sharing your direct case information publicly of course).

Regarding Webex, this is just one of the tools possible, and you can discuss with the engineer on alternatives. Internally we've been discussing the platform for remotes for some time, but it's a fairly significant change so right now nothing I can comment on with that, just note that there are alternatives that can be used; I'll make some adjustments internally so it's known to offer additional options for you, and send a reminder to the Support team that we have these other options.

(P.S. regarding the website chat-bot, this is not an official Veeam position of course but I have about the same reaction to any chat-bot from any site ;) I will make an internal request to have a function to suppress the bot at user discretion, but no ETA on if/when it would be implemented. FWIW, universally I just use uBlock and make a blocking rule for the entire domain of sites :D But this is just personal preference, I know that I'm almost always on the wrong side of A/B testing that shows a lot of people do get a lot of use from such chat tools, so someone out there likes these things. I think the "right" answer is just give an option for those of us who don't get use from them to dismiss it permanently)
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by ITP-Stan » 8 people like this post

I have to compliment Veeam in at least being open with the communication on the forum and allowing this topic to exist.
Many vendors would delete this or would not allow this topic to be started.

In my opinion support has become to much "sending mails back and forth ... with different people over the span of a couple of days ...".
It used to be "open a case, somebody contacts you by phone, they do a screen session and the problem gets resolved".

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by mcoacollins »

Funny this popped up - was just lamenting with a colleague the other day about how agent connections to VBR servers are still broken when NTLM restrictions to remote servers are in effect to prevent credential leakage. Reported it back in 2019 and support confirmed it was an issue but I ultimately gave up on the ticket after being asked for logs for a 5th time.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask » 3 people like this post

@ITP-Stan I really appreciate the compliment -- we never shy away when there are blemishes, and instead want to fix those. I think a few people I've written to in PM from this topic can attest to that, but obviously future results will speak the truth.

With regards to calls, a common misconception is that we "avoid calls" as a policy, but it's really not the case. We do try to make good use of both your time and our time for the investigation, and sometimes we might ask for additional information to make most effective use of the call/remote session, mainly just due to how big the scope of an issue might be (e.g., Connection Refused may mean just that, but any network admin knows it's never as simple as just "check the network" ;) ) So usually we want to go in with a bit of knowledge in advance. Engineers _should_ be explaining this in more clear detail, but if it's not happening, that's an issue for me to fix.

@mcoacollins, I did check the case and unfortunately a bit unclear on the root cause -- that is, I can see that your findings were pretty clear, but some of the results from such a policy change were not. I realize it means opening cases, but if you or anyone has similar issues, it'd be great to check and confirm such things; if we need to update the documentation or if there is an unexpected issue, then it needs to be confirmed! Log requests can be really annoying, I know, but they're very rarely for naught; if there is a change we propose and it doesn't help, the debug logging does help to understand why the change didn't have the desired effect. But, I also understand you've got a day job besides backups and especially if a case is long lasting, it's a fairly simple cost-benefit analysis. (Regarding that case, I would have preferred slightly different handling, but unfortunately what's done is done there).
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by b.vanhaastrecht » 2 people like this post

Being a SP we manage a lot of Veeam environments, we noticed a significant increase in support cases from v10+. Basic things got broken, things do get fixed but at a very slow pace and we still got the feeling VBR is wonky when it comes to job management. Other products like VAW, VBA and VSPC produce more issues then they should. I usually have one or more tickets open, constantly. This was not the case before v10.

We get access to dedicated SP support reps, those guys know their Veeam, nothing but kudos for those guys and girls. To my opinion, Q&A needs attention, then we wouldn't need to create as much tickets in the first place. :D
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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by desmith »

Having to push back on Lv1 multiple times when they claim something is working as designed before they eventually escalate, and the immediate response from escalation is "At this stage I suspect this could be a known issue" indicates something is very broken. This is one of 3 recent cases where I've had to go down the same path.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

@desmith, do you mind PMing some cases? As noted in the thread, we do want to investigate these, but we don't even try to associate your forum info with your actual account info, so really, we do need to see the cases to comment.
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

desmith
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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by desmith »

Sure thing, message sent

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by Taroking1 »

I would second what @ITP-Stan said.

I have found the support excellent once you get past the initial please collect logs and send them in email exchange. I on on east coast of Australia and by the time support comes online in Singapore we may already have lost a few hours. I may upload logs at the start of a call, but they need different ones. By the time they have asked me to upload again and then I have asked them to be more specific about the exact logs and timeline, that is one day gone. Any more email exchange or confusion and that is another day gone.

Once we get to the "please pass to a local engineer in my country so they are on my time zone for a screen share" things usually progress very nicely. The engineer can quickly see if this is a known issue with a KB article or actually something a little more unusual.

To be clear, I am not dissing the Singapore support staff here, more the email exchange and time zone difference at the start of each call almost guarantees delays and frustration.

BTW - I would say that this log gathering and email exchange frustration at the start of a support call is not exclusive to Veeam. In my experience is quite common for us with other vendors who have the same support setup. Log collection, email exchange, more logs, more email, delay, frustration, then screen share and problem solved soon after.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by GrandAdmiral » 2 people like this post

My 2 cents worth.

I agree with some of the others here that L1 support seems to be a bit more canned response and generally ineffective than it used to be (slower response time, more backing and forthing). One thing which has been an annoyance in the past is the handling of support for Cloud Connect jobs, as soon as you'd mention it L1 support goes straight for the escalation button which is fine but it has taken a while to get a response from that specific team even on high priority jobs.

That said, I absolutely cannot fault the P1 emergency service I received recently (case #05375048 if you want to give the support rep a big pat on the back from me). 1am my time, VSPC move gone wrong, all Cloud Connect customers not connecting, gave up my own troubleshooting and logged a case, not expecting a reply anytime soon. 20m later, support rep is on the phone, straight into Webex and stuck with me for the next 3 hours while we worked through the problem, located the cause and things looked like they were coming back online. At that point he had to leave to pick up his kid from school (which I didn't mind) but promised he'd be back in an hour if I was still having trouble. No need, everything came back on its own. Top marks from me!

I also feel like we have been logging more support tickets in the V11 era and indeed our ticket numbers have doubled from last year. That said my perception could be skewed by our own growth, Veeam is still a standout product and easy for us to implement/market.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by walliam88 »

Totally agreed with this thread ! I've been raise my ticket 3 weeks ago, but until today. I do not get any solution. Those helpdesk are lack of knowledge and L2 or L3 is not supporting them. Why we paying but deserve these poor thing ?

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

@Taroking1, can you PM a few of the cases? We even just sent out some instruction on log gathering and being specific (as a result of this thread), so definitely seems like some people are not following the outlined behavior. I'd like to check the cases and discuss them with you.

@GrandAdmiral, I'm glad you still found some good words to say, and indeed, Cloud Connect cases do involve a specific team (as a provider, your cases ought be routed there for most situations...I think you can force this with the checkbox during case creation that "my case involves a Veeam Cloud Connect Provider" or something like that, but let me check. Can you PM the relevant case? Let me check it and see why the routing went to a different queue.

@walliam88, as noted, please PM or post a case number - we need to investigate such matters
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by emanueleroserba » 3 people like this post

Despite being usually a scold with support, in this case I have to stand out of the crowd; my experience with Veeam support in the last month was very good, way better than the other vendors we are working with. Could it be a matter of time zone?

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by JailBreak » 4 people like this post

Hi all,

I have been using Veeam since its first version. In all these years didn't open many tickets with Veeam. Maybe 5 or 6, but we can notice that support has changed over the years. That is normal; the company grows, more customers, more areas, more continents, different teams, etc.
Honestly, I don't have so many complaints about my tickets. I am only open when it is a complicated situation or something I have never seen before or discussed in the "private" forums.

But in many cases, I open Veeam or VMware(where I have more tickets because of bugs), I state from the beginning that I don't need a newbie troubleshooting task. Because that is a waste of time for both. And yes, I also had tickets when we wasted a lot of time with emails back and forth with minor things, wasting my time, and also support time when things could be better handled.

As I said, support is changed in Veeam and most of the companies(VMware is a great example, one of the worse during EMC/Dell time), and sometimes not for the better(and this doesn't mean bad engineers or lack of experience, but most of the time is bad processes).

I want to send my support to all the support guys. Sometimes it is not an easy job, with very complex support tickets, and many times with not very easy customers.

PS: I also would like to send kudos to Veeam regarding this post. This is something you don't see every day. Only a few companies will leave a topic like this open and public and also freely let customers discuss this subject.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by JamesNT » 1 person likes this post

My personal favorite in Veeam support to date was when the support rep I was working with replied to me asking for an update: about another customer's case. That was awesome.

JamesNT

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by GrandAdmiral »

@david.domask the issue was less about being routed to the wrong team, more that some jobs would be handed up to the Cloud Connect team unnecessarily and others which were absolutely a Cloud Connect problem would take quite a while to get a reply vs the speed of other departments.

Sometimes the issue was just a B&R problem which could easily occur with a non-Cloud Connect job but as soon as Cloud Connect was mentioned L1 would immediately escalate, slowing things down.

It's been a while since it's happened, as I said my last experience was great and as my company's only L3 I totally get that specialised teams are a limited resource, I just know it was a bit of frustration for me personally.

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Re: Quality of Veeam support is lacking these days

Post by david.domask »

@GrandAdmiral, understood completely, and I get that there are sometimes slowdowns without proper confirmations. This is an element we're continuously improving (the AMERS based Cloud Connect Team is growing exponentially with lots of really good talent, so we should see a lot of these bumps smoothed out)

I really am glad you had some good experiences to report, and Ill check some of the history on your cases just to see where the delay came from.
David Domask | Director: Customer Care | Veeam Technical Support

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