Question about transfers

[menced]

Hi, If i have a vmware server, a NAS where to store backups and a small external server comanding the backups, during the process of backup, how data travel during the backup? Data travels directly from vmware server to nas or have to pass from the server with veeam software installed on it?

[Vitaliy S.]

Hello Simone,

VM data is retrieved by the proxy component, in your case VM data will be retrieved from the ESXi server and then sent to the NAS box directly by the proxy server.

For further details, please look through our sticky F.A.Q. > VMware : [FAQ] FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Thank you!

[menced]

If i have proxy on the computer running backup so data will go from vmware to this computer and from this computer to NAS, consuming double bandwith?

[Vitaliy S.]

Yes, your proxy server will perform on-the-fly compression and deduplication of VM data before sending it to the repository.

[menced]

With a license i can install how many proxy as i want?

[Vitaliy S.]

Correct, as we only license ESXi hosts where you retrieve VMs data from.

[menced]

But let's suppose i install proxy on a vm on the server and that vm is lost. Can I restore the VMs without the proxy only using the pc where i installed the main program or i need the proxy that made the backup?

[Gostev]

Yes, you can. The product install includes built-in proxy.

[menced]

May backup proxy be run in a vm that has to be backupped?
In another thread I read that on backup proxy is needed a free disk space of about 10%-20% of the VMs that I have to backup. If the job consists of a backup of 5 VMs do i need a 10%-20% free disk space for the total size of the VMs or only of the greatest of the VMs?

Proxy server does not need any database requirements. Am I right?

[menced]

My problem is mainly the duration of the backup process.
I have to backup about 1,6 Tb of data and I wonder if I could do this in one night. I have planned to use a small physical server as Veeam Server. I have (on another server) vmware with some VMs and a separate QNAP where to store backups. From what I have understood if I use the small physical server as Server & Proxy it will receive all the 1,6 Tb from the VMs, compress them and send data to QNAP, so my bandwidth will be about half (1/2 from VMS, 1/2 to QNAP). Supposing the bandwith will be of about 80 Mb/s, I have 40Mb/s of transfer rate from VMware to backup server, I have these results (correct me if i am wrong):
1.6 * 1024 * 1024 / 40 = 41943 seconds = 11 hours for each backup.


1) At what level incremental backups works? I mean, every time ALL of the 1,6 Tb will have to be sent to backup proxy or only the "differences" will be sent? Is the backup proxy the element that selects what is changed or not in the VMs or is it a vmware features so that data already existing do not need to be sent to backup proxy?
2) What is the best solution in this case? Put a Backup Proxy in one of the VMs?
3) How performance will be improved by putting proxy on a vm since it has no direct access to the server datastore (vmware server works on a local datastore on the server)?
4) Will I be able to backup data from the VM with backup proxy too? In this case data will be transfered faster?
5) Has someone some experience about backup of these sizes? How long will it probably take?
6) In my case bottleneck seems to be in bandwidht in my case. Am I right?

[foggy]

May backup proxy be run in a vm that has to be backupped?

Yes, however there are some limitations in this case, as proxy VM cannot hotadd itself, so this VM can be backed up in a network mode only. You can search for existing discussions for details.

In another thread I read that on backup proxy is needed a free disk space of about 10%-20% of the VMs that I have to backup. If the job consists of a backup of 5 VMs do i need a 10%-20% free disk space for the total size of the VMs or only of the greatest of the VMs?

According to system requirements, proxy server needs to have at least 200 MB free disk space (data is processed on the fly), so no high space requirements.

Proxy server does not need any database requirements. Am I right?

Correct.

[foggy]

1) At what level incremental backups works? I mean, every time ALL of the 1,6 Tb will have to be sent to backup proxy or only the "differences" will be sent?

Veeam B&R is a block-level solution that allows to perform incremental backups. Only changed blocks will be copied over during incremental job runs.

Is the backup proxy the element that selects what is changed or not in the VMs or is it a vmware features so that data already existing do not need to be sent to backup proxy?

It's VMware CBT (Changed Blocks Tracking) and Veeam proprietary algorithm also (in cases where CBT data is not available).

2) What is the best solution in this case? Put a Backup Proxy in one of the VMs?
3) How performance will be improved by putting proxy on a vm since it has no direct access to the server datastore (vmware server works on a local datastore on the server)?

Putting proxy on a VM will allow to use Virtual Appliance mode (hotadd) to retrieve VMs data directly from the host storage.

4) Will I be able to backup data from the VM with backup proxy too? In this case data will be transfered faster?

See my previous post for the answer.

5) Has someone some experience about backup of these sizes? How long will it probably take?

Depends on the particular setup and hardware. Only test will show how long it will take in your case.

6) In my case bottleneck seems to be in bandwidht in my case. Am I right?

Veeam B&R will show actual bottleneck statistics during each job run.

Also, I recommend to review the product user guide and the sticky FAQ topic since they answer most of the basic questions.

[menced]

Is VMware CBT active in vmware essentials?

In case I will not install proxy on a VM but in a different physical machine, VMWARE will not send not changed blocks to the proxy server (saving time)?

[Vitaliy S.]

Is VMware CBT active in vmware essentials?

Yes, it is.

In case I will not install proxy on a VM but in a different physical machine, VMWARE will not send not changed blocks to the proxy server (saving time)?

VMware will always return only changed blocks for the VMs (when using CBT) and it doesn't matter where your proxy server is installed.

[veremin]

In addition, if the backup window is your primary concern, you might want to utilize the newly-introduced parallel processing option, so that, VB&R will process multiple VMs and VM disks in parallel; this, in its turn, should to reduce significantly backup window. Thanks.

[menced]

Yes, my main concern is the backup window. In my case I think that the main problem will be over the network (1G) so I think that parallel processing will not solve my situation.

I would have prefered to run everything from the physical external server running veeam, but from what you say it seems impossible to handle 1,6 Tb of data in one night.

If i understand, the best way to solve the situation is to prepare 4 jobs:

1) weekly backup of VMs (except the one with the proxy server) made by proxy server in vm (so i will save bandwith and time running the backup from a VM on the server with vmware)
2) weekly backup of the VM running the proxy server made from an external physical server (the one running the main veeam server)

3) monthly backup of VMs (except the one with the proxy server) made by proxy server in vm (so i will save bandwith and time running the backup from a VM on the server with vmware)
4) monthly backup of the VM running the proxy server made from an external physical server (the one running the main veeam server)

Questions:
1) Are all the previous considerations correct?
2) In case of total destruction of the VMware server, can I replicate 4.1 vmware vms on a new 5.1 vmware server without problems?
3) The fact that the proxy server that made the backups will be lost in the destroyed server will cause me problems during restore/replication if I use the physical server running veeam server ro recover data?

[veremin]

(except the one with the proxy server)

Actually, you can put every VM in one backup job without any issues. Where possible Hot-Add mode will be utilized (all except one VMs), otherwise, network mode will be used (proxy VM).

but from what you say it seems impossible to handle 1,6 Tb of data in one night.

Moreover, please be aware, that it’s only full sessions that are unlikely to be finished during the night, while, incremental ones are much faster. So, it might be worth playing a little bit with schedule settings in order for full sessions to take place during the weekends only. Or you can consider using reversed incremental backup mode, that, after initial synchronization is always incremental.

In case of total destruction of the VMware server, can I replicate 4.1 vmware vms on a new 5.1 vmware server without problems?

Yep, the backups can be restored between hosts with dissimilar vSphere versions.

The fact that the proxy server that made the backups will be lost in the destroyed server will cause me problems during restore/replication if I use the physical server running veeam server ro recover data?

No problem with that. The role of proxy will be played by VB&R server, or, you can assign this role to any Windows based VM in your environment.

Thanks.

[menced]

Thanks a lot. You answer very fast and the service is excellent. Sorry to bother you with a lot of (probably stupid questions) but as you surely know, backups are very important so I must be sure that everything will be perfect.

If I make reversal incremental backups only the VERY FIRST backup will be complete and ALL other backups will be incremental, or sometimes i am forced to make a full backup?

Does reverse incremental backup need more time (and transfers) then normal incremental backup? If yes, how?

[foggy]

If I make reversal incremental backups only the VERY FIRST backup will be complete and ALL other backups will be incremental, or sometimes i am forced to make a full backup?

All subsequent job runs will be incremental, however it is a good practice to perform active fulls at least once in several months. General recommendations on full backup frequency can be found here.

Does reverse incremental backup need more time (and transfers) then normal incremental backup? If yes, how?

While the amount of data to be transferred is the same, reversed incremental mode puts a heavier load on the target storage, which can result in longer backup times.