v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed?

VMware specific discussions

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby atyler555 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:32 am

Hello all! I am brand new to NetApp. We run a single FAS2240 and I don't think we are licensed for much beyond the basic CIFs, NFS, MPIO, iSCSI... I've see tons of overhead with the creation of SnapShots during a VEEAM replication task, can you tell me if the NetApp VSC along with the NFS VAAI Plugin will force these Veeam triggered snapshots to utilize the performance improvements? Even if you happen to be replicating to Non-NetApp storage using the Veeam console to talk to a different site? I have seen the same behavior with VMware vSphere Replication and haven't implemented VAAI for vSphere just yet.
atyler555
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:27 am
Full Name: Adam Tyler

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:42 pm

Hi, Adam,

I'm not sure whether I've got your question. If it's mostly related to NetApp license required, then, the following section of our Help Center should clarify that.

Thanks.
v.Eremin
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 13255
Liked: 968 times
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby atyler555 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:36 pm

Vladimir,

Thanks for the link. Good information. The intent of my question really was to ascertain if there is any benefit to implementing VAAI and VSC for NetApp when using VEEAM replication. In our particular environment we do not have NetApp devices in both the production and DR sites, so we wouldn't be using NetApp driven replication technologies. However, my understanding of NetApp VAAI integration with VMware is that you can "offload" snapshot operations to the storage device in order to optimize the performance.. The objective being to reduce I/O drag during the snap and merge process that takes place during a VEEAM native replication task.

Hopefully I made myself a little more clear. Let me know if you need more information to comment. Thanks!

Regards,
Adam Tyler
atyler555
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:27 am
Full Name: Adam Tyler

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby doomi » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:07 am

basically you don't need VSC and VAAI for Veeam backups. VAAI isn't even used for snapshotting, it's to offload other tasks like cloning a VM to the Netapp (so the ESX host does not need to read and write the vmdk, instead Netapp is just linking the blocks).
I suggest to install VSC/VAAI just for managing/convinience, but not using it's backup features (known as SMVI) and just using Veeam with native snapshots and snapmirror/snapvault support.
doomi
Veeam ProPartner
 
Posts: 38
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:31 pm
Full Name: Dominic Wyss

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby atyler555 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:59 pm

Dominic,

Thanks for your reply. So to confirm, VAAI in no way assists with the traditional VMware based snapshot operation? Based on the documentation I see this is likely the case, a lot of talk about cloning, but almost nothing about snapshots... So if that is the case, the only reason to integrate VEEAM with the NetApp would be to utilize SnapVault or SnapMirror? Which are used to enhance the performance of backup and leverage the NetApp SAN to SAN replication technology..? So for DR purposes, unless you have two NetApp devices licensed with Flexclone and SnapMirror there really is no point..

Do I have a correct understanding?
atyler555
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:27 am
Full Name: Adam Tyler

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby atyler555 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:40 pm

Another update here. I've done quite a bit of research and have been working with Pre-sales at Veeam. We never deployed VAAI for NFS in our environment, simply added our single FAS2240 SAN device to the Veeam management console.. It consisted of a quick wizard and entering the admin creds for our NetApp. After the device was added to Veeam, replication tasks automatically started using "storage snapshots" instead of full VMware native snapshots. Basically when the replication task begins VMware does take a snap, however a NetApp volume snapshot is also created and it allows for VMware to immediately remove the snap while the data continues to replicate from the NetApp snapshot. The result is MUCH better performance as the merge process should take place from the NetApp storage device and leave the hypervisor out of it.

VAAI may still be a beneficial feature to add to your NetApp / VMware configuration, but as stated above, it is not required for this Veeam specific task. My testing has all been with replication, so I am not sure what other requirements might be necessary for backup/recovery. Some feel that FlexClone licensing is an absolute requirement, but I am a little fuzzy on the details.
atyler555
Novice
 
Posts: 7
Liked: never
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:27 am
Full Name: Adam Tyler

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:58 pm

FlexClone is suggested for better backup/replica operetions, and for restore operations from snapshots:
- on NFS 7-mode, without flexclone instant restore of objects (files, vm, objects) will not be so instant, as the entire VM needs to be cloned/restored before we can start reading data in it
- on NFS cDOT, you need snaprestore or flexclone. Without any of the two, it will not work.

On block volumes we use thin clones of the lun snapshot, so flexclone is not mandatory.
Luca Dell'Oca
EMEA Cloud Architect @ Veeam Software

@dellock6
http://www.virtualtothecore.com
vExpert 2011-2012-2013-2014-2015-2016
Veeam VMCE #1
dellock6
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 5047
Liked: 1330 times
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:39 pm
Location: Varese, Italy
Full Name: Luca Dell'Oca

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby rennerstefan » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:26 am

Little note to the FlexClone topic.

For block volumes on cDOT a FlexClone license is recommended.
For block volumes on 7-mode there is no need for FlexClone as there is lunclone in OnTap.

There are lots of different scenarios when it comes to restores from SnapVault/SnapMirror destinations. So to much to answer here.
Best is to get in contact with your local Veeam SE to talk about the details in your specific environment.
Stefan Renner
EMEA Alliance Systems Engineer

VMware vExpert, VCP
NetApp A-Team Member, NCIE & NCDA, Cisco Champion
Microsoft MCP, Veeam VMCT
rennerstefan
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 110
Liked: 19 times
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:39 pm
Full Name: Stefan Renner

Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Veeam Logoby doomi » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:20 am

>So to confirm, VAAI in no way assists with the traditional VMware based snapshot operation?

yes. it is used for cloning and storage vmotion and the like.
>the only reason to integrate VEEAM with the NetApp would be to utilize SnapVault or SnapMirror?
>Which are used to enhance the performance of backup and leverage the NetApp SAN to SAN replication technology..?
>So for DR purposes, unless you have two NetApp devices licensed with Flexclone and SnapMirror there really is no point.

for DR purposes, Snapmirror is the best thing, yes.

but even without Snapmirror, the snapshotting features are still better than traditional backup and restore.
it's very fast to make a snapshot, release the VMware snapshot and backup from the storage snapshot. the VMware snapshots are then really small, faster to delete and there's less impact on the VMs.
and also the restore will be even faster because it can directly mount the snapshot on the storage and doesn't need to pipe through vPowerNFS.
but as said before, VAAI doesn't have anything to do with this.

just use a Flexclone license for backup & restore and an additional Snapmirror license for DR.
doomi
Veeam ProPartner
 
Posts: 38
Liked: 2 times
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:31 pm
Full Name: Dominic Wyss

Previous

Return to VMware vSphere



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests