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ckbrou
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v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed?

Post by ckbrou » Jun 24, 2014 2:34 pm

We are looking at purchasing a new NetApp array in the near future to take advantage of the backup from storage snapshot feature in v8. Will any special NetApp licenses be needed to make this work or does it just function off of a basic snapshot?

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by foggy » Jun 24, 2014 2:42 pm

No special licensing will be required, Veeam B&R integration will work out of the box with basic snapshots.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by spenatek » Jul 29, 2014 2:50 am

And suppose I want to create a "SnapVault" backup on a secondary FAS, taken from the B&R "backup from snapshot" feature on the primary FAS - this scenario?

Do I need a SnapVault licence on both FASes? Or just on the secondary one?

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by foggy » Jul 29, 2014 10:55 am

As far as I understand NetApp licensing, both storages should be licensed for SnapVault to be available (with SnapVault Primary and SnapVault Secondary licenses correspondingly).

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by Gostev » Jul 29, 2014 8:03 pm

Might be just a single license as well. This question is best directed to NetApp sales, as we are by no means NetApp licensing experts ;)

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by ckbrou » Jan 12, 2015 3:19 pm

I have been using the NetApp Integration and wanted to note that trying to do FLR from a NetApp Snapshot with a Snaprestore license is painfully slow. Veeam uses the Single File Snaprestore feature (as it would need to since you probably don't want to Snaprestore the entire volume) which is miserably slow. I tried to pull a file from a small 25 GB VM and it took over an hour for the Snaprestore "copy" to complete. Make sure you have a flex clone license if you plan to ever restore from a NetApp snapshot.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by dellock6 » Jan 12, 2015 10:45 pm

Hi,
Flexclone are indeed "heavily suggested" for proper restore capabilities. Depending on the protocol used (nfs or block) and mode (7- or C-dot) there are different combinations: what is your case?
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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by ckbrou » Jan 23, 2015 2:33 pm

I am using NFS and 7 mode. I am working on obtaining a flexclone license very soon here.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by dellock6 » Jan 23, 2015 4:13 pm

Ok, indeed in your combination Flexclone is the perfect license.

Just as a note for future readers: FlexClone is the only license that gives real instant restore (VM/Files/ Objects) for 7-mode. If you use SnapRestore or NDMP protocol, Veeam will Restore all data first and start VM/ File/Object restore afterwards.
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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by ckbrou » Feb 09, 2015 3:40 pm 2 people like this post

I purchased a FlexClone license and tested restores over the weekend. The restore from NetApp snapshot using NFS and 7-mode works extremely well now! I can restore a file in just a few minutes. This is definitely my preferred restore method going forward as long as I am fine with a crash-consistent state.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by dellock6 » Feb 13, 2015 10:33 pm

Thanks for coming back with your positive feedback! :)

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[MERGED] NetApp Licensing Requirements

Post by rogerdu » Jun 25, 2015 2:52 pm

I'm looking to provide a costing analysis for a customer (already a Veeam customer) who is looking to change their infrastructure significantly... basically use their old infrastructure as a DR site and procure new for the production. One of the scenarios I am considering for the replication side is NetApp storage coupled with Veeam Replication for near Continuous Data Protection.

What I am looking for at this point, is what NetApp licensing options are required for the integration of Veeam to orchestrate the replication of NetApp to NetApp traffic? From the documentation I am seeing that for backups one needs Flex Clone and Snap Restore. For Replication one would also need Snap Mirror and Snap Vault. Are there any other licensing options needed from the Veeam side?

Thanks in advance,

Roger

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by Vitaliy S. » Jun 25, 2015 10:08 pm

SnapMirror and SnapVault can only be used in conjunction with backup jobs only, for replication it is not needed. Please take a look at this thread for more info on the required licenses. Hope this helps!

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by rogerdu » Jun 30, 2015 2:23 pm

From the replication side, are there any licensing requirements?

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by Vitaliy S. » Jun 30, 2015 2:53 pm

For running replication jobs from storage snapshots, you will either need FlexClone or SnapRestore license. It is recommended to use FlexClone for better job performance rates.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by atyler555 » Aug 11, 2015 12:32 am

Hello all! I am brand new to NetApp. We run a single FAS2240 and I don't think we are licensed for much beyond the basic CIFs, NFS, MPIO, iSCSI... I've see tons of overhead with the creation of SnapShots during a VEEAM replication task, can you tell me if the NetApp VSC along with the NFS VAAI Plugin will force these Veeam triggered snapshots to utilize the performance improvements? Even if you happen to be replicating to Non-NetApp storage using the Veeam console to talk to a different site? I have seen the same behavior with VMware vSphere Replication and haven't implemented VAAI for vSphere just yet.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by veremin » Aug 11, 2015 12:42 pm

Hi, Adam,

I'm not sure whether I've got your question. If it's mostly related to NetApp license required, then, the following section of our Help Center should clarify that.

Thanks.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by atyler555 » Aug 11, 2015 4:36 pm

Vladimir,

Thanks for the link. Good information. The intent of my question really was to ascertain if there is any benefit to implementing VAAI and VSC for NetApp when using VEEAM replication. In our particular environment we do not have NetApp devices in both the production and DR sites, so we wouldn't be using NetApp driven replication technologies. However, my understanding of NetApp VAAI integration with VMware is that you can "offload" snapshot operations to the storage device in order to optimize the performance.. The objective being to reduce I/O drag during the snap and merge process that takes place during a VEEAM native replication task.

Hopefully I made myself a little more clear. Let me know if you need more information to comment. Thanks!

Regards,
Adam Tyler

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by doomi » Aug 12, 2015 10:07 am

basically you don't need VSC and VAAI for Veeam backups. VAAI isn't even used for snapshotting, it's to offload other tasks like cloning a VM to the Netapp (so the ESX host does not need to read and write the vmdk, instead Netapp is just linking the blocks).
I suggest to install VSC/VAAI just for managing/convinience, but not using it's backup features (known as SMVI) and just using Veeam with native snapshots and snapmirror/snapvault support.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by atyler555 » Aug 12, 2015 7:59 pm

Dominic,

Thanks for your reply. So to confirm, VAAI in no way assists with the traditional VMware based snapshot operation? Based on the documentation I see this is likely the case, a lot of talk about cloning, but almost nothing about snapshots... So if that is the case, the only reason to integrate VEEAM with the NetApp would be to utilize SnapVault or SnapMirror? Which are used to enhance the performance of backup and leverage the NetApp SAN to SAN replication technology..? So for DR purposes, unless you have two NetApp devices licensed with Flexclone and SnapMirror there really is no point..

Do I have a correct understanding?

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by atyler555 » Aug 13, 2015 3:40 pm

Another update here. I've done quite a bit of research and have been working with Pre-sales at Veeam. We never deployed VAAI for NFS in our environment, simply added our single FAS2240 SAN device to the Veeam management console.. It consisted of a quick wizard and entering the admin creds for our NetApp. After the device was added to Veeam, replication tasks automatically started using "storage snapshots" instead of full VMware native snapshots. Basically when the replication task begins VMware does take a snap, however a NetApp volume snapshot is also created and it allows for VMware to immediately remove the snap while the data continues to replicate from the NetApp snapshot. The result is MUCH better performance as the merge process should take place from the NetApp storage device and leave the hypervisor out of it.

VAAI may still be a beneficial feature to add to your NetApp / VMware configuration, but as stated above, it is not required for this Veeam specific task. My testing has all been with replication, so I am not sure what other requirements might be necessary for backup/recovery. Some feel that FlexClone licensing is an absolute requirement, but I am a little fuzzy on the details.

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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by dellock6 » Aug 13, 2015 11:58 pm

FlexClone is suggested for better backup/replica operetions, and for restore operations from snapshots:
- on NFS 7-mode, without flexclone instant restore of objects (files, vm, objects) will not be so instant, as the entire VM needs to be cloned/restored before we can start reading data in it
- on NFS cDOT, you need snaprestore or flexclone. Without any of the two, it will not work.

On block volumes we use thin clones of the lun snapshot, so flexclone is not mandatory.
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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by rennerstefan » Aug 15, 2015 10:26 am

Little note to the FlexClone topic.

For block volumes on cDOT a FlexClone license is recommended.
For block volumes on 7-mode there is no need for FlexClone as there is lunclone in OnTap.

There are lots of different scenarios when it comes to restores from SnapVault/SnapMirror destinations. So to much to answer here.
Best is to get in contact with your local Veeam SE to talk about the details in your specific environment.
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Re: v8 - NetApp Backup from Storage Snapshots License Needed

Post by doomi » Aug 21, 2015 8:20 am

>So to confirm, VAAI in no way assists with the traditional VMware based snapshot operation?
yes. it is used for cloning and storage vmotion and the like.
>the only reason to integrate VEEAM with the NetApp would be to utilize SnapVault or SnapMirror?
>Which are used to enhance the performance of backup and leverage the NetApp SAN to SAN replication technology..?
>So for DR purposes, unless you have two NetApp devices licensed with Flexclone and SnapMirror there really is no point.
for DR purposes, Snapmirror is the best thing, yes.

but even without Snapmirror, the snapshotting features are still better than traditional backup and restore.
it's very fast to make a snapshot, release the VMware snapshot and backup from the storage snapshot. the VMware snapshots are then really small, faster to delete and there's less impact on the VMs.
and also the restore will be even faster because it can directly mount the snapshot on the storage and doesn't need to pipe through vPowerNFS.
but as said before, VAAI doesn't have anything to do with this.

just use a Flexclone license for backup & restore and an additional Snapmirror license for DR.

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