Discussions specific to the VMware vSphere hypervisor
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Stephenv
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Stephenv » Apr 27, 2018 10:26 pm 1 person likes this post

I hope the update comes soon. as we are doing a Server refresh in a few weekes, and i'm building a new setup. going from ESX 5.01 to 6.7 the only thing come over from the old setup are the VM's no migration of vCenter.


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Gostev
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Apr 28, 2018 9:33 pm

Gnaah wrote:Is not Veeam that "Agile" anymore than what it was in previous years ?
Are you becoming too big perhaps, turning into another Elephant ?
What makes you think Veeam is less agile than it was before? If you're talking about vSphere 6.7 support specifically - then as already mentioned earlier, it should be delivered within the exact same time frame as with all the previous vSphere releases (which was, on average, 2 months after vSphere GA).

UAnton
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by UAnton » Apr 29, 2018 7:48 am

Veeam is slowpoke ;) You can release update for support 6.7 before VMware release 6.7. You should not force client waiting.
P.S. I'm sure that you are cooperating with VMware and you knew about the changes for a long time!

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Apr 29, 2018 9:37 pm 6 people like this post

Actually, releasing support for 6.7 before VMware releases 6.7 is an extremely bad idea, because you can never guarantee that the code which worked with the RC build will continue to work reliably with the GA build. There're many examples of significant changes between RC and GA build with the previous vSphere releases. For example, in vSphere 6.5, those changes required us to pretty much scrap our vSphere 6.5 support code entirely, despite the fact it worked perfectly on the pre-release builds.

And in fact, just a few years ago one of the leading backup vendors (our competitor) did exactly what you suggested, announcing support for the new vSphere release on the day it went GA. Which made many of its customers upgrade and run into major backup and recovery reliability issues. It was a huge hit on their reputation - and in this light yes, we believe it will be better for us to take the "slowpoke" approach (as you put it), and test everything well on the final shipping code - even if this means we "force our clients waiting". We just value our customers' trust that we established in the past 10+ years too much to risk it.

Other than that, of course we were cooperating with VMware and have done everything that was possible using the pre-release code drops. For example, migrating Web Client plug-in to HTML5 was quite a major project that took us some months of playing with those pre-release bits earlier this year.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by dbhagen » Apr 30, 2018 5:06 pm 2 people like this post

I came up in the ranks of system administration starting in backup admin. Look, I get it, wanting the features from the latest VMware updates. I keep checking this thread as well for when support is released.

But I can't fault VEEAM for taking this one at a "slowpoke" pace. If you're doing backups right, you're paranoid. Paranoid that the backups won't run, paranoid that the backups aren't valid, paranoid that the media might fail. You live and die by your backups, and as much as I would love the new UI fixes, I cannot risk my backups failing and my company being at risk. It's not fun to be pointed at as the reason we're not able to install the new software. It's even less fun to be pointed at when you can't backup or restore critical company data.

So just try to see it from both sides. They're doing their best, and it's up to us to do our best in waiting for the critical patches and vetting needed and communicating to our stakeholders why it's important to hold off.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Regnor » May 01, 2018 7:19 am 1 person likes this post

We all use Veeam because of its high stability so give them the necessary time for developing and testing new releases.

Like Anton, I also know a major backup vendor which supported 6.5 right on the release date, without even requiring an update for their software. Last time I've checked they were still using VDDK 6.0 and weren't able to backup VMs on VMFS6.

Also I wouldn't hurry to migrate to 6.7; you don't know if it's safe to use and stable enough at the moment.
If you need to upgrade then go to 6.5 and migrate to 6.7 later; upgrading vCenter and ESXi hosts doesn't take much time and isn't complicated at all.

ArchanfelHUN
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by ArchanfelHUN » May 02, 2018 11:45 am

Defending the Veeam team, vmware did a big changes in vsphere 6.7. They drop out the suse linux as base and using the vmware trademark mr. fancy PhotonOS. And do a LOT of changes during the services, using a completely different infrastructure in the whole vcenter server. Just see the changelog. This is not a bugfix update, its a huge update and the system improved a lot. Much faster, much more reliable. Please give the veeam team time to make the veeam backup compatible with the new system.

phrynd
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by phrynd » May 02, 2018 4:40 pm

I fully understand Veeam point of view, you cannot ensure a full support for a new vSphere version as soon as it becomes GA.
But, I'm quite sure, you were already working with VmWare at least for major changes and not with all details.
I think it could be a very good thing for you to deliver a beta version or a RC to the guys that want or need to upgrade their test environment.

Those guys could help you to detect some weird things or behavior.

Obviously, none of us will go to production without testing vSphere and Veeam together and with both on real versions no RC or beta.

Would be nice from veeam to post a link to the RC (or the mailbox to which ask for the RC) as soon as it will be available.

ArchanfelHUN
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by ArchanfelHUN » May 03, 2018 6:52 am

I try the workaround what you guys mentioned abobe. Set the proxy to virtual appliance and disable the fallback to network mode.
I have two VMware ESXi, 6.5.0, 7388607 ESXi server, both connected to the same veeam server. Both have vmfs6.
With one of them the backup working, the other however not.
I got this error:
Unable to allocate processing resources. Error: No backup proxy is able to process this VM due to proxy processing mode restrictions.

I dont get it, exactly the same, even the hw, two HP DL380 G9, same ESXi version, why not working both?

update: the veeam vm located on the esxi what is working. if i migrate to the other esxi that will work and the other not. so the veeam need to be the same esxi if the proxy set to the virtual appliance mode. this is normal behavior or i miss something?

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by jasonph » May 03, 2018 8:32 am

DaStivi wrote:i did some research… i got one vm with the "object reference not set error"... this vm got back'd-up with NBD Mode... i need some time to realize that there was a snapshot open... looks like because of that the vm didn't got saved with my storage integration… but basically it looks like that with storage integration (backup from storage snapshot, or NFS Direct backup) the backup of vms on 6.7 does work, but not with NBD mode for example!
cgrossman wrote:DaStivi, you are awesome! Under Backup Infrastructure\Backup Proxies, I selected my proxy, went to Properties, and Transport mode was set to Automatic selection. I changed that to Virtual Appliance, and unchecked the box for Failover to network mode if primary mode fails. Now my backup WORKS! And, it's much faster. I was topping out around 120Mb throughput before, but now I'm seeing over 400Mb. Veeam Forums FTW!
@DaStivi and @cgrossman - much respect. Veeam seems to work happily with VMware 6.7 in backup and replication using Virtual Applliance transport mode, and is faster than in Automatic mode.

ArchanfelHUN
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by ArchanfelHUN » May 03, 2018 12:09 pm

Only solution what i found is to install a basic veeam backup proxy server into every esxi host and use as a remote proxy in the main backup server.
This is clearly not a good solution, since need to maintain unnecessary windows servers, need to licence that, and the veeam servers. So its no good.
The best way to not to update for 6.7 for now!!
ArchanfelHUN wrote:I try the workaround what you guys mentioned abobe. Set the proxy to virtual appliance and disable the fallback to network mode.
I have two VMware ESXi, 6.5.0, 7388607 ESXi server, both connected to the same veeam server. Both have vmfs6.
With one of them the backup working, the other however not.
I got this error:
Unable to allocate processing resources. Error: No backup proxy is able to process this VM due to proxy processing mode restrictions.

I dont get it, exactly the same, even the hw, two HP DL380 G9, same ESXi version, why not working both?

update: the veeam vm located on the esxi what is working. if i migrate to the other esxi that will work and the other not. so the veeam need to be the same esxi if the proxy set to the virtual appliance mode. this is normal behavior or i miss something?

justind
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by justind » May 03, 2018 9:54 pm

Surely nobody would sign off of an upgrade to v6.7 in a production environment on release...

rstoner
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by rstoner » May 04, 2018 6:07 am

Given that VMware also released 6.5 U2, I'm guessing we still have to wait for 9.5 U3a to be supported, correct?

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by servicematica » May 04, 2018 6:15 am

does anyone know how to tell when the veeam update will come out? or if you can download a beta?
thank you

Gostev
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » May 04, 2018 12:01 pm

rstoner wrote:Given that VMware also released 6.5 U2, I'm guessing we still have to wait for 9.5 U3a to be supported, correct?
No, normally updates do not require any code changes from us, as they bring nothing but bug fixes.
servicematica wrote:does anyone know how to tell when the veeam update will come out? or if you can download a beta?
This will largely depend on the results of stress testing of the GA code, and the number of bugs we find. For example, we have just found one critical bug with hot add leading to data corruption, and now need to build a code to work around this one. However, this is nothing unusual - quite typical process of adding support for the new vSphere version - and as I noted before, normally it takes us 2 months on average, making late June a good estimate.

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