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tom11011
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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by tom11011 » May 28, 2018 10:45 pm 1 person likes this post

Not to get too off topic, but does anyone other than me believe VMware 6.0 Update 3b or 3c is the best version to be on when weighing out all these vmware issues over the last 1-2 years? I want to make a major upgrade here at some point but it seems foolish to put myself out for all the aggravation that comes with broken vmware servers because of vmware's lack of quality control over the last 2 years. What is the consensus on the go-to version of vmware to be on these days? Should I go to 6.0 Update 3e which is fairly new, goto 6.5, or 6.7 when veeam supports it?

Thanks.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by morty » May 29, 2018 8:14 pm

Doh!

I upgraded our vCenter from 6.0 to 6.7 today. Original plans were to upgrade to 6.5 but when 6.7 was announced we decided to wait a month and do the upgrade. Well come to find out Veeam doesn't work with this update which we noticed when our backups stopped working.

Luckily I was able to still restore our vCenter 6.0 VM from backups through the new vCenter 6.7 proxy. Then I simply connected directly to the host, deleted the vCenter 6.7 VM and booted up the old vCenter 6.0 VM.

Everything seems back to normal. Any word on when Veeam will support vSphere 6.7?

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by nitramd » May 29, 2018 9:17 pm

@morty, toward the end of June.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by anpa » May 31, 2018 1:47 pm

I noticed previously in the thread a question regarding if there was any issues with running vCenter 6.7, but still having the hosts on 6.0U3 or 6.5U1 - if that was a supported solution? Same with vCenter 6.5U2, but having hosts on 6.5U1 - does that also break stuff?

For those questioning the time frame for Veeam, keep in mind that Veeam gets the GA code from VMware the same time as everyone else - this could be improved on by VMware to simple release the GA bits to integration partners some time before making it GA, that way they could have 3rd party support for their products when they go GA. The code many partners have tried with have been the beta bits, and VMware seems to change stuff between last beta and final GA bits.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by ONE IT Service » Jun 01, 2018 10:38 am

Following this post suggestion : https://ollis.blog/workaround-vmware-es ... mmenspiel/

There is a workaround that worked in my case. It's in German but it says to change the transport mode of your backup proxies to "Virtual Appliance" and to disable the option of failing back to network.

Restart your backup server and run your jobs again.

Seems to work for 2 days now.

Cheers...

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by jonathanmayhew » Jun 01, 2018 7:41 pm 1 person likes this post

This is a real pain! Am rolling back hosts to ESXi 6.5 now so I can at least connect directly to the hosts to get backups going again. That also caused some issue which I am working with VMware on now. To be honest I am almost at the point of rebuilding vCenter and my hosts from scratch. The guy at VMware said he has had many many people contact him about this issue since 6.7 was released.

The workaround didn't work for me as I already had it set to "Virtual Appliance".

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Regnor » Jun 02, 2018 9:05 am

The question is, are your backups really consistent?

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by cambiumphil » Jun 02, 2018 6:40 pm

anpa wrote:I noticed previously in the thread a question regarding if there was any issues with running vCenter 6.7, but still having the hosts on 6.0U3 or 6.5U1 - if that was a supported solution? Same with vCenter 6.5U2, but having hosts on 6.5U1 - does that also break stuff?

For those questioning the time frame for Veeam, keep in mind that Veeam gets the GA code from VMware the same time as everyone else - this could be improved on by VMware to simple release the GA bits to integration partners some time before making it GA, that way they could have 3rd party support for their products when they go GA. The code many partners have tried with have been the beta bits, and VMware seems to change stuff between last beta and final GA bits.
Yes, from VMware's perspective having downlevel hosts is a supported situation.

VMware's "VMware Product Interoperability Matrices" (https://partnerweb.vmware.com/comp_guid ... matrix.php) will tell you everything you want to know about supported combinations.

vCenter Server 6.7 can be used in conjunction with ESXi 6.0, 6.0 U1, 6.0 U2, 6.0 U3, 6.5, 6.5 U1, and 6.5 U2.

vCenter Server 6.5 U2 can be used with ESXi 5.5, 5.5U1, 5.5U2, 5.5U3, 6.0, 6.0 U1, 6.0 U2, 6.0 U3, 6.5, 6.5 U1, and 6.5 U2.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by ArchanfelHUN » Jun 04, 2018 6:28 am

Virtual Appliance mode only working when you have a single esxi host, or you have the veeam server and the vps guests on the same server too. If you have an esxi cluster it will not work.
ONE IT Service wrote:Following this post suggestion : https://ollis.blog/workaround-vmware-es ... mmenspiel/

There is a workaround that worked in my case. It's in German but it says to change the transport mode of your backup proxies to "Virtual Appliance" and to disable the option of failing back to network.

Restart your backup server and run your jobs again.

Seems to work for 2 days now.

Cheers...

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by jgosnell » Jun 04, 2018 1:54 pm

Work around is working for me. I have a single vSphere instance at 6.7 with 4 clusters of 6.7 hosts. Three of the clusters has 2 hosts in each and the final cluster has 6 hosts. I am using "Virtual Appliance" transport mode with NO failover option selected. My replications (new and old jobs) are working as expected. However, only my existing Backup jobs are working. New (created after vSphere upgrade) Backup jobs are failing and support has thrown their hands up until the patch is released.

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Re: Veeam and VMWare 6.7

Post by jonathanmayhew » Jun 04, 2018 2:03 pm

Cragdoo wrote:for those who have upgraded, are we talking your lab/test/dev environments? Surely no-one was stu... brave enough to upgrade to 6.7 on release day in production????
lol New prod environment for me but not yet production.

I rolled back my hosts from 6.7 to 6.5 and HA on all three no longer works... Spent 4 hours with VMware at the weekend trying to resolve until they noticed it was a known issue rolling back from 6.7 to 6.5. Reinstalling all three hypervisors today from scratch.

https://docs.vmware.com/en/VMware-vSphe ... notes.html

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by tom11011 » Jun 04, 2018 5:55 pm

6.0 Update 3e, accept no substitutes :P

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by anpa » Jun 04, 2018 6:31 pm

cambiumphil wrote: Yes, from VMware's perspective having downlevel hosts is a supported situation.
Thanks for the reply - I know it is supported by VMware, but I was referring to if this was supported by Veeam.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by sdiavante » Jun 04, 2018 7:43 pm 2 people like this post

If I get heat for posting this opinion, so be it. I am paid very good money to provide my unique perspective, and here it is for free. These are the facts as my customer sees them:

The current software dev industry promotes compulsory updates and has created the customer perception that “newest is safest and best. Update available: Update now?” …

The current hardware dev industry promotes compulsory upgrades and has created the customer perception that “newest is fastest and most reliable. Upgrade available: Upgrade now?”

The reasons for why these are true are a subject of another discussion with far more time and characters to type.

Customer buys the newest hardware, wants the newest software. Has the highest expectations.

A GA release is made to sound tested and functional. In this case, the latest backup software used with it is expected to simply work. Any fact counter to this will require extensive customer re-education. Sure, it can happen. But there is a catch, that sours any explanation and makes hands raise in a group with a question to be asked.

Since to them, money is the bottom line, this comes quick.

“Why does the backup software no longer work, but the company that writes it simultaneously makes a new product that DOES work, that is (now) free for 90 days? Why am I faced with having to either pay you to update the now-broken “old” software when the patch is released, or pay for a license on the new software in order to leave it be in a functioning state?”

You cannot argue this logic, it is perception based, and we are the engineers that provide this perception. It is very close to “the first one is always free” as found on a street corner from shady characters offering drugs I now I want to consume, having watched enough finger pointing in this thread to make me ill.

I will not even try to describe this problem to the customer, they’d be engineers when I am done. This saddens me.

QA testing seems to be at an all time low. My customer feels like a beta tester shelling out money for beta software that is broken out of the box. They have to pay an industry expert (ME) lots of money, to play interpreter, and I basically sit and read technical documentation while performing my job, sometimes re-reading the same page for it changes on an almost-daily basis, and the ramifications for not following those details can cost millions, including my job.

This is like flying a 787-10 Dreamliner, while studying the technical documentation with a full passenger load. The mechanic is working on the engines as we fly, and when I set throttle to 75%, I get a huge warning “ERROR: 75% throttle has resulted in stator imbalance vibration, hydraulic failure imminent, reduce throttle?” and I say YES. “ERROR: Why would you ever reduce throttle from any position ending in 5? Page 327 of documentation CLEARLY states the resulting resonance in secondary hydraulic systems can result in complete hydraulic failure. Please contact Boeing for technical support guidance in this matter.”

My passengers just want to get to where they’re going. They only care about the ticket price and legroom.

Keep up the good work, but please, don't lose perspective for what the customer wants.

Sincerely,
Sinclair

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Tails » Jun 06, 2018 2:01 am

Well.... I know veeam keeps saying they have the record of releasing new updates within 2 months. However, isnt that an emergency situation when 6.5U2 also have issue? Whay cant they release the update earlier? I am sure it is not that hard to fix on veeam side...

6.7 Released on 17th April
Now is 6th June

right, you still have 11 days!

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by cuwcd » Jun 07, 2018 1:02 pm 9 people like this post

I am still kind of new to Veeam Software. I do love Veeam and what it can do and how it works Great.

I have been an administrator for over 25 years, and let me tell you that you should always check for compatibility with 3rd party vendors before doing upgrades!!! Don't blame Veeam for your mistake.

Also I am anxious for the update to Veeam to work with VMware 6.7 because having to use flash with vSphere Center Server for some functions SUCKS, but let me tell you that if you were using other vendors other than Veeam you would be waiting much longer than 2 months or so.

I have worked with 3 or 4 other backup vendors in the past and you would be lucky to get an update within 6 months.

The other thing with Veeam that I have found is that when the update comes out rest assured that you know it is going to work.

Thank you Veeam for a Great product and keep up the good work.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Jun 08, 2018 4:16 pm 6 people like this post

Thank you for your kind words, John.

To provide everyone with an update, we're expecting to have the first RC build of Update 3a created today. Which means we're about 10-15 days away from RTM build. So it seems we're still on track to make our 2 months average for new platforms support.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by zimeon » Jun 09, 2018 7:13 am

Great news :) Always good to have some kind of estimate, even if it might change. Got a few customers who we are planning to upgrade their vSphere environments and have been waiting for the VEEAM update to get started with them. Would also like to thank for a superb product to work with! Been updating my dev close to day one, but then again it's just my own website and some game servers there so it's not that important.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by tmessinis » Jun 14, 2018 12:17 pm

Any update on the release date?
We are busy implementing a new Vsphere infrastructure for a new client and want to go live by next week if possible.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Jun 14, 2018 12:23 pm

I posted the current estimates just 1 post above yours.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by jamerson » Jun 14, 2018 11:04 pm

Gostev,
Thank you for your hard work on the update.
a big thank you to the team who was working hard on this.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by DonZoomik » Jun 18, 2018 7:41 am

Gostev wrote:Thank you for your kind words, John.

To provide everyone with an update, we're expecting to have the first RC build of Update 3a created today. Which means we're about 10-15 days away from RTM build. So it seems we're still on track to make our 2 months average for new platforms support.
It's been 10 days, how are things going? :)

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Jun 18, 2018 9:28 am

So far so good, expecting to ship this week.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by omf » Jun 18, 2018 5:57 pm 1 person likes this post

I've skimmed through the thread, and appreciate both Gostev's responses and the frustration from the customer level. Several users have made very good, thorough points on the perspective of the latter. All I'll add is this: there's no reason Veeam should not be making it perfectly clear on the download page that Veeam does not currently support the latest version(s) of VMware. You shouldn't have to dig through anywhere else to learn this - it should be right there in bold text. Especially weeks after that latest version was released. There's no excuse for this, and it's a disservice to both existing and, especially, new customers that you don't.

Other than that... I look forward to the pending update...

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by SKratzTS » Jun 18, 2018 6:50 pm

After the relatively poor track record of VMWare botching CBT and other under-the-hood features, I look to Veeam to provide VMWare with a "It's now ready for production" statement. Burned once, won't get burned again.

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by James.Williams » Jun 18, 2018 7:22 pm 2 people like this post

omf: At the enterprise level you cannot assume something is supported. Veeam is a business critical server application, not desktop software. I fully expect there to be some lag time between a major feature release of an OS and the business-critical server applications supporting it. I'd love for Veeam to release software that is fully tested and production ready the same day that VMWare has a new release. And of course, Veeam has access to the beta releases of VMWare software and starts working on supporting it before it comes out. However, Veeam (and many other server software vendors) typically wait until the final product comes out to do their production-ready validation tests since there are typically some differences between the RC versions and final production versions. Veeam needs to do a full validation run through, write KB articles, and be fully prepared to support the newest version of VMWare with a new software release before its released to the public. In an enterprise environment, you typically will not deploy a new major software release right away, because of this. Most large environments i've seen wait 6-12 months after a major release to start implementation, it doesn't matter if its VMWare, Windows Server, Red Hat, Debian, etc...

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by James.Williams » Jun 18, 2018 7:23 pm


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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by omf » Jun 19, 2018 6:01 pm

James.Williams wrote:omf: At the enterprise level you cannot assume something is supported.
I don't understand why people keep restating this, even though there are a good number of users who have clearly been affected by the situation. Whatever "enterprise best practices" an organization may or may not follow, the fact of the matter remains that Veeam will have some customers who find themselves with this problem. All several of us have been saying is that it would help reduce the number of these incidents by simply adding a note on the download page saying that Veeam does not yet support the current releases of VMware. Repeating what "enterprise best practices" are helps no one, while a simple one-line note would help *everyone*

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by Gostev » Jun 19, 2018 10:10 pm

Oscar, can you clarify your idea please? Why would our existing users go to the product download page at all?

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Re: Veeam and VMware 6.7

Post by IndyTech » Jun 19, 2018 10:46 pm

"I don't understand why people keep restating this, even though there are a good number of users who have clearly been affected by the situation"

What other response are you expecting? I hate to be so blunt, but if you have even a minimal level of experience working with server software or working in the IT industry in general, you would never have put yourself in this position in the first place. If you can't grasp the importance of testing software compatibility before deploying new software onto a server, then you should not be working on servers. Putting warnings on the Veeam website stating the obvious would be a pointless move.

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