Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

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Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby jzilak » Tue May 30, 2017 7:23 am

Hello,

it would be nice to add support for checkpoint less replica for VMs, similar technology what is used in Zerto. For very large VMs (+10 TB) with hi daily volume changes, (1TB or more) creating Replica VM, can cause hi volume usage overhead. checkpoint less replica and hi performance replication engine will solve this issue.

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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Tue May 30, 2017 7:53 am

Veeam already announced Veeam CDP (Continous Data Protection) on our VeeamON event this month.
You can read more here: https://go.veeam.com/v10
and here https://notesfrommwhite.net/2017/05/25/ ... plication/
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby dellock6 » Tue May 30, 2017 12:29 pm

However this is the Hyper-v sub-forum Andreas... ;)
Josef, there's no immediate plan to have CDP capabilities for Hyper-v.
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Andreas Neufert » Tue May 30, 2017 12:34 pm

OMG... please delete my post... Sorry Josef.
Potentially Hyper-V2016 and ReFS as Filesystem can help here to streamline Checkpoint processes as those processes are done by ReFS block cloning instead of IO disk operations.
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Mike Resseler » Wed May 31, 2017 6:28 am

Hi Josef,

If (and no promises made ;-)) we would do this for Hyper-V, it would mean that we would need to install a filter driver on Hyper-V. As of today, Microsoft has no API such as VMware that we can trigger to do the work. So out of interest for myself:
* What Hyper-V version are you using? And if not (yet) 2016, are you planning to move to it (and how fast)
* Would you be OK to install a filter driver on your hyper-v host?
* Would you also like periodic "checkpoints" that still use VSS technology to have a application consistent checkpoint from time to time

Thanks for the info
Mike
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby jzilak » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:03 pm

Hi Mike,

- feature for WS 2016 or never only will be OK
- filter driver on Hosts is not a problem
- add VSS periodic checkpoints would be nice to have

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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Mike Resseler » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Thanks Josef for returning with answers. Appreciate it!
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby jazzoberoi » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:26 am

+1 We too were looking at Zerto for checkpoint-less replication to our DR environment.

Andreas Neufert wrote:OMG... please delete my post... Sorry Josef.
Potentially Hyper-V2016 and ReFS as Filesystem can help here to streamline Checkpoint processes as those processes are done by ReFS block cloning instead of IO disk operations.


For this to happen, will the CSV need to be formatted with 64k ReFS instead of NTFS ?
Is the ReFS stable / recommended for Hyper-V CSV disks ?
Is this method of snapshotting faster / better than SAN based off-host snapshots (3par in our case) ?

I suppose a filter driver on the host should not be an issue since it's coming from Veeam and not Microsoft :D
Sad as it may seem, I'd rather trust Veeam QC than Microsoft to be honest !!
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Mike Resseler » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:41 am

Microsoft recommends RefS 4k when it is used for running VM's on. And it is their recommendation for 2016 to use ReFS now.
If you will read through these forums, you will notice that there are some problems with ReFS when used as a repository but I am not aware of many big problems when it is used as the storage for your virtual machines

And thanks for the great compliment on QC... I hope you don't mind that I pass it to them ;-)
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby nmdange » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:27 pm

There are pluses and minuses but if you use the native Hyper-V Replica functionality and not Veeam Replication that will accomplish what you want. It replicates all I/O changes at a specified interval rather than Veeam which takes a snapshot/backup and replicates that. Hyper-V replica can transfer data every 30 seconds, 5 minutes or 15 minutes. Now if Veeam could manage/orchestrate native Hyper-V Replication that would be pretty awesome :)

Windows Server 2016 also has Storage Replica which lets you replicate an entire volume in real-time or near-real-time.
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby Mike Resseler » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:53 am

@nmdange,
Sorry for my late reply (Yep, even we get holiday from time to time :-D)

Not that this will ever happen that we will manage/ orchestrate Hyper-V Replica but since you ask... Is the reason simply for the single management console or is it because Hyper-V Replica is missing management functionality? And if so... What?
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Re: Add checkpoint less replica support like in Zerto

Veeam Logoby nmdange » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:36 pm

Mainly around using failover plans to orchestrate multiple VMs and an easier way to manager beyond powershell. Hyper-V Replica by itself requires everything be done with powershell scripts other than just creating the replica initially (which can be done with Hyper-V MMC). I think there is some orchestration you get if you pay for Azure Site Recovery, but that requires SCVMM and an Azure subscription.
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