just one backup job for all vms?

Hyper-V specific discussions

just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:42 pm

Hi,

we have 16 vms, 2 of them are sql servers, 1 exchange 2010 and 1 big file server (30tb data). Would it be suitable to put this bunch of vms into one backup job? I don´t see any drawbacks right now. are there any?

Best,
Tim
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby Gostev » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:13 pm

Hi, Tim

There are no limitations as far as the number of VMs in the job. Most users would split such a huge file server into a separate job though, in order to keep backup file size for the rest of production servers more manageable. This may help you in future in certain scenarios.

Thanks!
Gostev
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 21390
Liked: 2349 times
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Baar, Switzerland

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby alanbolte » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:53 am

Block size ("storage optimization") of the job is also a consideration - the big file server will need to be set to the largest setting ("local 16+ TB"), but you might not want to do that for the other VMs because it can reduce the built-in deduplication and slow down file- and item-level restores.
alanbolte
Expert
 
Posts: 635
Liked: 170 times
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:58 pm
Full Name: Alan Bolte

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:56 am

ok, thanks, so your suggestion would be to split the backup into
1. fileserver
2. everything else?
My thought was that with everything into one job, we could achive the best deduplication outcome (as our b2d target size might be an issue)
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:30 am

Alan, can you explain more detailed, why I would have to set the file server to 16+tb? We plan to do only synthetic fulls once the first full is successful, so I assume that block size might not be an issue. I would rather like to have the best deduplication outcome possible. Does this sound reasonable?

when reading this
http://helpcenter.veeam.com/backup/80/h ... ation.html
It seems to me that choosing this option is a question of cpu and memory stressing. I am running the first full backup that includes the file server this evening. Maybe I can tell more tomorrow.

Best,
Tim
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby adrianIDC » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:50 pm

You could group them five vm for each Backup Job.
A to be 5 vm have the same S.O
adrianIDC
Expert
 
Posts: 179
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:44 am

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby Vitaliy S. » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:06 pm

Yes, I would also vote for this type of distribution:
1. file server
2. same OS

tym wrote:Alan, can you explain more detailed, why I would have to set the file server to 16+tb? We plan to do only synthetic fulls once the first full is successful, so I assume that block size might not be an issue. I would rather like to have the best deduplication outcome possible. Does this sound reasonable?

If you want to get maximum dedup then why not to use Windows Server 2012 deduplicated volume as a target for your repository?
Vitaliy S.
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 19558
Liked: 1102 times
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am
Full Name: Vitaliy Safarov

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby alanbolte » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:19 am

Tim,

The best practices guide for v7 says:

For maximum performance and reliability, it is recommended to meet the following guidelines for total size of VM data within a job:
•Local Target (1MB blocks): 32TB
•LAN Target (512KB blocks): 16TB
•WAN Target (256KB blocks): 8TB


I think I remember some comments just after v8's release suggesting these values had increased, but we don't yet have a version of that best practices guide for v8 so I'm not completely sure. However, I have seen a number of cases with VMs smaller than 10 TB where using the largest (8 MB) block size was advisable, mainly because regardless of your backup method there will be operations involving the list of blocks in the backup, and the larger that list is the longer those operations will take (CPU and memory load certainly play a part in that, but so do CPU and memory speed, and for some operations storage performance). The most extreme example of this is a newly discovered issue with overbuild operations (occur sometimes in forever-incremental mode and backup copy) described in this thread: veeam-backup-replication-f2/v8-slow-incremental-backup-merge-call-for-support-cases-t26815.html

Also note that in the current version the size of the list of blocks to deduplicate against is limited to around 8 million (I think that's per backup file, so at the default 1MB block size that's around 8TB) so with a VM that's tens of TB in size you won't necessarily get a smaller backup file by choosing a smaller block size. You might - it's hard to tell without direct testing.

Vitaly,

Using Server 2012 deduplication inside the 30TB VM to reduce the size of the data being backed up might work well, but I don't think Server 2012 duplication can handle backup files of tens of TB, unless there have been some recent improvements to it I'm not aware of. I recall the early versions of it didn't support files larger than 1TB; last I looked you still need to make sure your storage formatting and configuration perfectly matches best practices if you want to use files in the 1TB to around 4TB range, or eventually you start getting file system errors.
alanbolte
Expert
 
Posts: 635
Liked: 170 times
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:58 pm
Full Name: Alan Bolte

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:24 am

Hi

first of all, thanks for your suggestions. Here´s what I found this morning: the backup is still running and at 51% completion (started friday afternoon). It started with approx. 190MB/s and it is now down to 50. Deduplication rate is nearly 1:1.
Bottleneck ist considered to be the network, which I do not believe, as network would be somewhat around 100MB/s at the worst (both servers, target and source have nic teams with 4 nics or more).
Nothing to fancy right now..
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby foggy » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:47 am

Tim what kind of target storage do you have and how it is added into Veeam B&R console (what type of repository is used)?
foggy
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 14742
Liked: 1079 times
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:45 pm

its 3 iscsi equallogics ps4000 with 4 volumes (3x15tb, 1x3tb) combined into 1 spanned windows volume. io is quite low atm compared to what those devices are capable of.
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:06 pm

the backup finally failed after 72 hours with "snapshot not found" error -.-
Does Windows Server 2012 R2 delete snapshots after 72 hours? Is there any way to resume the backup, or do I have to re-run it completely?
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:38 am

exact error message was:
30.03.2015 15:51:05 :: Error: Snapshot with id '{97440f86-2e9b-4515-bbcd-d75c6d356afa}' was not found. --tr:Failed to complete VM backup. Snapshot id: '{97440f86-2e9b-4515-bbcd-75c6d356afa}'. Snapshot with id '{97440f86-2e9b-4515-bbcd-d75c6d356afa}' was not found.

I searched the onhost proxy for snapshot creation or deletion events but found nothing. There is also plenty of space on the volume where the vhdx is located.
Should I start a new thread as I think I am moving away from the initial thread subject..
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:32 pm

Tim, it's always better to contact technical support directly with such issues, since logs investigation is most likely required.
foggy
Veeam Software
 
Posts: 14742
Liked: 1079 times
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:22 am
Full Name: Alexander Fogelson

Re: just one backup job for all vms?

Veeam Logoby tym » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:54 pm

Thanks Alexander, we are currently evaluating the software, so we are no customers yet (will likely be one once we solved this issue;-)
Should I nontheless contact the support?
tym
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 83
Liked: 9 times
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:30 pm
Full Name: Tim Diekhans

Next

Return to Microsoft Hyper-V



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests