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Ultra_Cool
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Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Oct 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Hello!

I have a few questions about replication. If i have Hyper-V 2012 core and if i run replication there why i should use veeam replication. P.S hyper-v core is free. What is different between veeam and hyper-v 2012 replication?

Second: If i have veeam backup can for example 5 different servers in 5 different domains connect to it and replicate over network or i have to use VPN tunnel.

Third: Can someone explain how compession works.

thank you

best regards/ ultra

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Gostev » Oct 30, 2012 2:44 pm

Hello,

1. The biggest difference is that Hyper-V replication is not scalabile, because is doubles write I/O on protected VMs. You will start running into heavy storage impact once you enable replication for more than a few VMs. On the other hand, Veeam replication does not have similar impact.

2. Yes, absolutely.

3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_compression

Thanks!

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Oct 30, 2012 2:51 pm

Hi, Thank you on fast reply. So i dont need to have vpn tunnel for that. I can replicate to 5 different servers in different domains without vpn?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Gostev » Oct 30, 2012 2:54 pm

VPN is not required, but might be good idea to have if you are replicating over Internet (for network traffic encryption).

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Oct 30, 2012 3:08 pm

Okej thank u Gostev. Now if i decide to use veeam how i am gonna set it up for best use for my customers. We are using microsoft dpm. Which is advantages/dissadvantages to use veeam instead of dpm replikation. Or it can be good idea to use them both. Hope that u can help me with this so that i can make good decision. We are very interested in veeam so it will be good if u can answer to my questions.

Best Regards/Ultra

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 30, 2012 3:40 pm

Hello, you can learn about our top/core Hyper-V support features in this video. DPM provides none of these features. Hope this helps!

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Oct 31, 2012 9:13 am

Thank you. Can i start up VM on veeam like i can in hyper-v? On hyper-v if i replicate vm and if something happens to it i can easily start it up on my secondary hyper-v. Can i do it in veeam or veeam is only backup solution with replication of data.

2 question: If i have 3 clients (different domains) and each client has 5 vm's. Can they share on same machine (veeam) or i have to have one veeam for each client.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 31, 2012 9:29 am

1. Yes, you can start VMs either using Hyper-V Manager or Veeam backup console (see our User Guide, page 54)
2. It's up to you, but you can use the same single Veeam B&R server to backup their VMs.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Oct 31, 2012 5:42 pm

Hej Vitaliy thank u on your reply. Can i take backup on for example sql and recovery one database or i have to recovery whole vhd. Is there item level recovery i Veeam?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Oct 31, 2012 6:53 pm

Yes, you create a backup of the VM hosting SQL Server and then perform file-level recovery operation, no need to recover the whole vhd. In addition to this, we have a dedicated Exchange item restore wizard (User Guide, page 225). Hope this helps!

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by collinp » Nov 02, 2012 4:51 pm

I have similar questions and want to delve further into the replication performance differences between Hyper-v 3.0 and Veeam 6.5. I see that Microsoft states that Hyper-v 3.0 replication is designed for small and medium sized business. I believe I saw one website stating a maximum of 50 vm's was recommended. Using both Hyper-v and Veeam replication, you can tune the replication intervals to a pretty granular level of, let's say, 15 minutes. But in the Veeam case, wouldn't the excessive snapshots be hard on the Hyper-v cluster? Would you want to replicate over 50 VM's on 15 minute intervals using Veeam? Wouldn't this put the Hyper-v cluster into redirected mode every 15 minutes? I know with VMWare, there is VAAI, which can help mitigate some of these performance issues. But not sure on Hyper-v. Can veeam replication on Hyper-v take advantage of Hardware VSS snapshots to help from going into redirected mode?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by tsightler » Nov 03, 2012 12:55 am 2 people like this post

Veeam can absolutely take full advantages of Hardware VSS snapshots and this is always the recommended options. By combining hardware VSS and off-host proxy with Veeam CBT that Hyper-V snapshots are relatively non-disruptive, actually far less so that with VMware even with VAAI.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Gostev » Nov 03, 2012 8:30 pm 1 person likes this post

Exactly. Integration with storage-level snapshots for data protection is one thing where Hyper-V is light years ahead of VMware. Not only hardware VSS prevents cluster from going into the redirected I/O mode for the duration of backup, but storage-level snapshots are also completely non-disruptive, and not plagued by notorious VMware snapshot commit problems.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by collinp » Nov 04, 2012 1:58 pm

Great. I will begin testing Veeam replication. Why is Hyper-v's replication double the I/O over Veeams?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Gostev » Nov 04, 2012 6:51 pm

Because it uses journaling approach (all changes are collected in a separate file, in addition to being written to the virtual disk). The journal file is then sent over to the target site and replayed into the replica virtual disks.

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[MERGED] Veeam backup and replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 09, 2012 9:01 am

Hello,
I have installed veeam and when i tried to add servers i get error. We are planing to implement veeam and its very important to understand this. I have a few question which and hope that someone can answer on them.

I have a few remote sites using Hyper-V. Can I backup them without VPN to my central Veeam server? (if yes, how)? Does they need to be visible on internet or veeam have to be visible?

2. Is Veeam suitable for “hosting” backups for customers?

3. How much does Veeam compress the data transferred between the Veeam client and server? We use Microsoft DPM today. Can I assume that there is less data needs to be sent?

4. Is it recommended to have a local Veeam server installed on each remote office or is it enough if I have one central (if I accept longer recovery times). And can I do a mix? If one office have higher requirements. Can I place a local Veeam server there and replicate it to the main Veeam server?

5. If I backup a remote office and want to do a restore. Can I export the vm to a removable device from the Veeam server, take it to the remote office and import it? How easy is that?

best regards / Ultra

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by foggy » Nov 09, 2012 1:11 pm

Seems that most of these questions have been already answered in this topic above... But still a few additions below.

1. While VPN is generally not required (though is a common practice when traffic goes over Internet in terms of security), you need to have servers involved in the backup process (remote hosts, backup repositories, and Veeam B&R console) see each other. In the product user guide you can find a list of all ports required for the backup.
2. Generally yes, but depends on the specific scenario you want to implement.
3. Depends on too many factors (the contents of the VM disks, in first place). Note that Veeam B&R also provides inline deduplication, which together with compression allows to significantly save on transferred traffic and storage space.
4. You can use a single Veeam B&R server to backup all the VMs, but definitely need local proxy server installed in each remote site.
5. Pretty easy. You can always import the backup file to the newly installed Veeam B&R in the remote site and make it ready for restore. Otherwise, you can use a standalone utility (extract.exe) coming with every Veeam B&R installation and allowing to restore VMs from any VBK file, even without the product installed.

Thanks!

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 11, 2012 3:57 pm

Thank you foggy. On second question scenario is like this. If i have 4 remote sites and i want that every site share my veeam server. How can i on easiest way connect to it. I dont want that my remote sites are visible on internet only veeam. How can i fix that without vpn.
Second: what u mean with local proxy server. Is that some role or program what i should install on each server or?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 11, 2012 7:11 pm

Ultra_Cool wrote:How can i on easiest way connect to it. I dont want that my remote sites are visible on internet only veeam. How can i fix that without vpn.
But if you're able to connect to Veeam proxy/repository over the internet without VPN connection, then your remotes sites are already accessible, aren't they?
Ultra_Cool wrote:Second: what u mean with local proxy server. Is that some role or program what i should install on each server or?
Proxy server is a data mover component (Veeam backup infrastructure) that is used by backup and replication jobs. Please check out our User Guide to review available proxy server types and their deployment guidelines.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 12, 2012 12:08 pm

Hej VItaliy, which ports i should open from internet to my veeam server. I guess that Installer 6160, transport 6162 hyper-v integration 6163 and Data transfer options : port range 2500-5000 is for client side.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 12, 2012 12:13 pm

I found it :)

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Yes, also you should also open ports required for deploying Veeam Backup & Replication components - 135, 137-139, 445.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 12, 2012 12:35 pm

That is on client side. from client to server is range 2500-5000 and is that mean if i have 10 servers that i need to have 10 public ip addresses

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 12, 2012 12:47 pm

Yes, either public IP address or VPN connection is required.

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Ultra_Cool » Nov 12, 2012 9:48 pm

Hello. Something is really strange with veeam or with my server. I open all ports on my hyper-v server and disble all on my router (example wan blocking) and veeam server. Veeam server has public ip and i can ping both server and veeam. I turned off firewall on both directions and still keep getting error (unable to connect via WMI. The RPC server is unavailable). I dont know what to do more an this???

In dpm i can install agent manually and like that get connection to servers in un-trusted domain and workgroups. Does veeam has option like that?

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Re: Veeam replication vs hyper-v 2012 replication

Post by Vitaliy S. » Nov 13, 2012 7:44 am

Ultra_Cool wrote:unable to connect via WMI. The RPC server is unavailable
Try to access WMI manually to verify the connection. Anyway, I think it's better to contact our support team and ask for assistance in setting everything up via a remote WebEx session.

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