64-bit linux support

[sindre]

Hi folks

I've not been able to use a 64-bit linux server as a backup repository - the agent used by veeam is 32-bit (I "captured" it before it was deleted and checked), and there is no 32-bit support on this server. Most major linux distros in default install have 32-bit support, so they are able to run the agent.

I contacted support, which told me

You are absolutely right, the only version of our Linux agent is 32-bit version.

Unfortunately we can't provide you with the 64-bit Linux agent at the moment. You are the first customer that have asked for such a feature, and I will be glad to create a feature request for you.

However, the FAQ seems to say otherwise, which leaves me confused. I assume support is correct and the FAQ is wrong or misleading, it would be nice to see it clarified.

Is there really no demand for actual 64-bit linux support?


From the FAQ:

Q: Do 7.0 backup proxies and backup repositories still support both 32-bit and 64-bit OS?
A: Yes, meaning you can keep your backup proxies and backup repositories intact. However, we recommend using 64-bit servers for backup repositories, as this provides for supporting larger backup sizes.

Q: What do you support as a backup repository?
A: The following repositories are supported:
<snip>
• Any storage directly attached to, or mounted on a Linux server (x86 and x64 of all major distributions are supported, must have SSH and Perl installed). The storage can be local disks, directly attached disk based storage (such as USB hard drive), NFS share, or iSCSI/FC SAN LUN in case the server is connected into the SAN fabric.

[veremin]

I'm wondering what specific problems you got while trying to add those repository. Something with perl or the agent itself? Thanks.

[sindre]

The agent itself is 32-bit - the binary that is sent from the veeam server, does the actual work, and is then (normally) deleted. Perl works on the server, and perl-scripts are of course not affected but this issue.

[foggy]

Q: Do 7.0 backup proxies and backup repositories still support both 32-bit and 64-bit OS?
A: Yes, meaning you can keep your backup proxies and backup repositories intact. However, we recommend using 64-bit servers for backup repositories, as this provides for supporting larger backup sizes.

There's some sort of confusion here. This FAQ quote does not talk about data mover process architecture, but rather about OS itself. Most 64-bit OSes out there are capable of running 32-bt processes anyway.

That said, while Veeam B&R v7 did add 64-bit Windows data mover (due to VDDK 5.5 requirements and Windows OS per-process memory limitation), Linux data mover is still 32-bit only.

[Gostev]

Is there really no demand for actual 64-bit linux support?

Correct, no demand because 32-bit data mover does the work just fine. Your request is indeed the first in over 6 years.

At this time, there is simply no good reason for us to build, and then maintain 64-bit data mover, in addition to the current 32-bit data mover. I can, however, see this happening down the road, when we completely drop 32-bit support in our product.

[sindre]

I understand that it still works for most people, but I would guess every linux system connected to by any production veeam installation anywhere is 64-bit by now. At least for paying customers. Compiling for 64-bit seems rather unlikely to require very much additional work, and I would think you safely could phase out 32-bit support soon.

Requiring 32-bit support when the rest of the world has moved past that seems outdated and strange. It certainly elicited a few laughs and rolled eyes around my office.

As for the FAQ, it's certainly not clear on this point. Nor could I find this information anywhere else. It would have saved a lot of time if I had known about this limitation beforehand.

[Gostev]

Requiring 32-bit support when the rest of the world has moved past that seems outdated and strange. It certainly elicited a few laughs and rolled eyes around my office.

This is perfectly understandable, considering that no one in your office has to take care of 120'000 other Veeam customers nor supports them on daily basis, thus seeing what other users are using.

For example, we still fully support, and have customers using ESX 3.5, which is a 32-bit platform. And while it may seem "outdated and strange" for people in your office, they actually have perfectly valid reasons to continue using those (for example, custom builds from VMware).

Or, take those x86-based storage appliances added as Linux-based backup repositories for best performance, and thus running our Linux data mover. Basically, I am just trying to demonstrate here that we are not completely clueless, as you are implying with your comment, but rather just have to keep many things only we know in mind.

At some point, we will certainly draw the line, and stop supporting 32-bit OS in our product completely. Perhaps with a short transition period, when we will end up having to support both 32-bit and 64-bit Linux data movers. There just has not been any pressure to make such a move sooner, rather than later - and there were many valid reasons to keep Linux data mover 32-bit on the other hand.

In 2015 however, with some base installs becoming 64-bit only (as Tom just told me offline), the pressure will actually appear besides, we are dropping ESX 3.5 support, too. So, it all lines up nicely to make the change next year!

[sindre]

I suppose I did neglect the sheer number of users you have, and the diverse platforms they run, with my "everyone is 64-bit by now" comment.

And while I now understand you must support 32-bit systems as long as you can, I still fail to see why you require them. Especially considering the large userbase. When you support 32 and 64 bit windows, I would think you could do so for linux too.

But ok, as you say you will change when you have to, and I suppose beeing argumentative on the forum won't change that.

[dellock6]

Don't be negative, and trust us each and every argument counts toward the roadmap.
Your comment is indeed appreciated, and it's another customer feedback voting for the "please create also the 64 bit agent for linux". It happened in the past for the windows agent (and Anton knows how I pushed for it before joining Veeam...), surely it will also for the linux one

[tsightler]

The simply stated reason to not just have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions is the QC effort involved. Indeed it's likely that compiling a 64-bit agent isn't difficult, but the testing effort for two agent builds is exactly double of having only a single agent. For Windows there were other unavoidable reasons why a 64-bit agent was needed, primarily the fact that VMware provides only a 64-bit version of the VDDK in 5.5 as mentioned earlier in this thread. This made having both a 32 and 64-bit agent for Windows for at least some period of time pretty much unavoidable.

On the other hand, since we don't use Linux proxies the VDDK platform support was not important there, Linux didn't have some of the technical issues with 32-bit processes sometimes seen on Windows, and we had heard no concerns from customers regarding our Linux 32-bit agent, it didn't seem to make much sense to double the QC effort and introduce the possibility of bugs in a new compile when the 32-bit agent is such a proven component.

However, time moves on, and I'm seeing more "64-bit pure" Linux installs in the field, although still a very small percentage overall. So, while your request may be one of the first requests, it does not at all surprise me. Being the first to request something does not mean you are wrong!

[sindre]

I recently upgraded to Veeam v8 after seeing this in the version 8.0 release notes:

Backup Repository Server
...
OS
Both 32-bit and 64-bit (recommended) versions of the following operating systems are supported:
...
• Linux (bash shell, SSH and Perl are required)

But no. Using a pure 64-bit linux still doesn't work, it seems to still not be supported. So please change the release notes and other documentation that says this. Now it's just plain wrong. "Most major 64-bit distros": yes (as they include 32-bit libraries), "64-bit linux": no.

If I'm wrong, and there's an error on my end that makes this not work, please let me know.

[foggy]

I'm passing your request to the technical writers team, thanks for the feedback.

[tsightler]

But no. Using a pure 64-bit linux still doesn't work, it seems to still not be supported. So please change the release notes and other documentation that says this. Now it's just plain wrong. "Most major 64-bit distros": yes (as they include 32-bit libraries), "64-bit linux": no.

Can you tell me more about your "pure 64-bit Linux"? Are you truly not able to run even a statically linked 32-bit binary? The VeeamAgent is 100% statically linked and thus has no external dependencies on any 32-bit libraries being installed. I just tested on a 64-bit Ubuntu install that has no ia32-libs or i386 compat packages of any sort, only 64-bit binaries and libraries, and the VeeamAgent still runs because it is statically linked and has no dependencies on any external libraries. Does the binary literally fail to run? What error message do you get?

[sindre]

It's a minimal, homegrown linux distribution - all the important bits are quite standard, though.
Linux backup6 3.10.40 #1 SMP Fri May 16 21:16:37 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
The binary doesn't run - "cannot execute binary file".

I'm not really an expert on this myself, but my local linux guru and veeam support seem to agree that the issue is the 32 bit veeam binaries on a purely 64 bit OS.

[tsightler]

Thanks for the info. I'm trying to figure out what specifically has to be removed to keep a 32-bit statically linked binary from running. Even though I have no 32-bit components installed, I see when I run the binary via strace that it's starting a 32-bit process in the kernel. Perhaps if the toolchain is built without any 32-bit support at all it won't even load a an ELF32 binary, even if statically linked. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a 64-bit binary as well, but I was also trying to understand why I wasn't running across this issue on a wider scale in the field even on systems that appear to be completely 64-bit otherwise, but these are all major distributions as you mentioned before. Thanks for the feedback!

[sindre]

As this shows up on search engines, I figured I'd update this old thread.

After the latest veeam update (2b for veeam 8.0), it seems that veeam finally support pure 64-bit linux repositories.

Looking forward to speeding up my backups by doing more processing closer to the storage.

[Gostev]

Indeed, thanks for that !