Feature Request - More granular backup schedule settings

[ammayer]

It would be really nice to configure how many days before performing another full backup.
Also, a more granular control of backup schedules would be nice. For instance, I have a laptop that uses a program to essentially flash firmware on hardware out in the field. The firmware files MUST reside in the "Program FIles" folder. We only receive these files once a month. So realistically we only need back ups monthly. It would be awesome to see an option to "back up only if source has changed.

[Gostev]

Hi, Alan

Our backup is forever-incremental, there is no way to perform another full backup even manually. So, there is no functionality that you are asking to be scheduled.

Backup on change is a good idea on another hand, but this option can only be made available for file-level backup mode with explicit files or folders selection, is this OK?

Thanks!

[ammayer]

Backup on change would be awesome. I am currently only performing file-level backups anyways so that's perfect.

[jonaz]

Since VEB was written in .Net, the filesystemwatcher component could be used to accomplish the on file/folder change feature. I've used this to watch folders and sync to another destination in the past, so it is indeed very possible and not too hard to implement. Would just need user's to set the folders/files to watch, which could be a user variable, or stored in the localdb. The filesystemwatcher can raise an event when a file is changed, created, deleted, and renamed.

[bganjifard]

Im sure this might have been answered, but will the full version allow weekly backups instead of daily ?

[Dima P.]

Jona,
Thank you, we will definitely look into this.

Behrod,
No plans for now, but based on the received feedback we can enhance existing schedule options in future releases.

[apronk]

It would be really nice if you can specify the days for the backup schedule.
Daily is good, but weekdays would be better.
Laptops here aren't connected in the weekend, but Veeam Endpoint will try to backup on the scheduled time anyway.

[Mike Resseler]

Hi Arend,

Thanks for joining in the conversation! We really appreciate this.

Just to clearify, you would like to be able to backup Mo through Fri but skip Saturday & Sunday. So basically a picker that specifies the days you can backup. Is that correct?

Thanks

Mike

[apronk]

Hi Mike,

Sorry for the late reply, I have been away for a while.
Yes that is exactly what I want.

[pmalinov]

I like the idea of having a "picker" for the backup days. I also would like to see an option for once a month backup or even weekly.
Currently VEB only allows for number of days to keep backups for and daily.

The full restore feature is what is very important to us. We do not do much file level backups due to the fact that most of our files reside inside different applications. But when a computer crashes (for whatever reason) we need to be able to quickly image it to a recent configuration. I cant keep more than 10 restore point due to storage limitations. Currently this is 10 days, but if weekly or monthly is allowed then that changes to 10 weeks or 10 months. This becomes helpful when a PC has been infected or compromised for a long period of time and we need to revert back the clock.

Please let me know if there is a away we can accomplish this today. Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks

[Dima P.]

It’s possible even now. Setting daily backup schedule in conjunction with backup no more often than allows setting a backup once a week or even month. Just set the needed value in backup no more often than XX days.

[apronk]

It's not possible to make to set it to backup on Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri and then exclude Sat and Sun.

[Dima P.]

True, however, it’s possible to set up a backup to be created every X days.

[apronk]

Doesn't help me in the slightest though.
Let me explain our situation.
I've installed VEB on all computers and laptops here and the backup location is our VBR Server.
During the week all computers backup every day to the VBR server without problems.
However we have a few developers that work from home over the weekend, during which a VPN is active from their laptop to our office.
VEB sees the VBR is available during Backup time and start backing up over the VPN line.
This saturates their ADSL lines, so it is impossible for them to work.
Hence why your solution is no solution for us and our need is for the backup NOT to be scheduled over the weekend.

[Vitaliy S.]

Arend, as per Anton's digest, in our minor update scheduled to this week we are adding a capability to launch backup job through a command line interface, so you should have a solution for use case now:

This update adds ability to start backup job from command line, putting the full power of Windows Task Scheduler in to the hands of those who'd like to go crazy with their backup schedule.

[apronk]

Arend, as per Anton's digest, in our minor update scheduled to this week we are adding a capability to launch backup job through a command line interface, so you should have a solution for use case now:

While that will certainly help to put our problem to rest, it is more a work around than a real solution.
I don't mean to be negative, really, I just find VEB a beautiful perfect program and the only little imperfection is that absence of a proper scheduler.

[Gostev]

It has a perfect scheduler for backing up desktops and laptops, which is what VEB is designed to do. It may lack other functionality, such as smarter VPN handling that you bring up above, but it doesn't mean this needs to be solved by complicating the scheduler.

[apronk]

I suppose you have quite a low standard for the definition of perfect.
Again, I'm not asking for the world or even something complicated.
I'm just asking for something pretty much every other backup software has available by default, a normal scheduler.
And not even that, I'm only asking for "weekdays" instead of daily.

But after the amount of resistance you guys put up against a simple suggestion I'm fed up with this whole ordeal.
While we are more then happy with our VBR solutions which are licensed so I guess those suggestions are taken seriously,we aren't so happy with VEB, but I guess you get what you pay for, including the attitude that goes along with it.

[Gostev]

I suppose you have quite a low standard for the definition of perfect.
I'm just asking for ... a normal scheduler.

I admit having a different definition of "normal" when it comes to an endpoint backup product the current scheduler is designed according to my vision, and feedback after more than 200,000 downloads proves the vision to be correct.

I don't add functionality just because "pretty much every other backup software has it available", because I don't want to create yet another solution with complex, cumbersome UI to join that army. And less reliable too, because each additional option spreads QC resources thinner and thinner.

That said, as per my previous post above, I do agree with your issue and use case. And we are intended to solve this in a robust way. It is just that I disagree with your proposed solution. I consider it to be merely a workaround that will fail big times the moment some of your developers need to work on a weekend in the office finishing some important project, and losing the laptop (that has not been backed up due to excluded weekend days) afterwards.

But talking about attitude, I would certainly appreciate if you avoid personal attacks on these forums in future, and don't get down to personalities in an argument. You are welcome do disagree with my definition of perfect, but there is really no need to characterize it as "low".

[apronk]

I don't get down to personalities, really.
I merely tried to point out that when you define a scheduler that only has one option as "perfect" then you're definition of perfect needs re-evaluation. And just to re emphasise I do not mean that as a personal attack, just an observation.

To argue your point on the off chance that my developers need to work in the weekend, and that is just about as likely as them winning the lottery, the chance that their laptop gets stolen or lost after that specific weekend (or any weekend for that matter) is a risk we're willing to take.
Besides if the scheduler is allowing it, isn't the responsibility of us as a company or the end user?
In any case it is not Veeam's responsibility.

And again, I am not asking for a "complex and cumbersome UI" I am just asking for just 1 single simple entry in the option of the scheduler.
Just a "Daily or Weekdays" selection.
How many times to I have to reiterate that to not have this twisted into some impossible request where it ends up as a "complex and cumbersome UI", or VPN related options, or Resouce intrusive or... Or... Or...?

And to once and for all close this arguement, I think you guys make great software.
You truly have a terrific corner in the market which you so richly deserve, however I would like to point out, if you read this case objectively as a few others that I've read, that the greater Veeam becomes and the more the userbase grows, the level of support declines.
Don't lose it, it's one of the pilars of this great community.

[Gostev]

Sounds good. I promise you that while I am here, at least from product and R&D perspective, things will remain as they were 7 years ago, when I joined

And the best way you and other users to help us, is share your specific issues, scenarios - and explain what's not working well. Just like you did on the previous page. Do keep that kind of feedback coming! We will listen, and find the best possible solution to each problem, as we always did!

However, if you instead take the road of telling us "Just Do This", you will likely hear "No" in many cases. And it is in no way about attitude or anything. First, my position from day 1 has been to be very open and always set right expectations (to not have you wait and hope that something is coming when it's not). And why "No"? Simply because most users either do not know our vision and strategy around the particular product, or do not see a bigger picture, or both.

As Henry Ford once said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses".
Of course he would have said NO to this, but it's not because he had a bad attitude

[Gostev]

Besides if the scheduler is allowing it, isn't the responsibility of us as a company or the end user?
In any case it is not Veeam's responsibility.

Oh, and one more point I forgot to address - actually, I do consider it my responsibility to protect your data in every way possible, beyond just providing a tool that CAN do this well. And I go all the way to achieve this, including not providing easily accessible UI options that will leave people unprotected in scenarios they are not even thinking about due to lack of experience. For example, while you personally may fully understand and accept implications of excluding weekends - trust me, most people will not even think about those.

But in the end, if you can't recover your data (even if you are ultimately responsible for some decisions that led to this event), for me this still means I did not do my job well. Because I must ensure my users are successful protecting their data with my product.

[apronk]

I have to disagree with you there.
While I commend you for your principles, but however good your intentions are they are slightly misguided.
In the end, as you've put it, it is up to the end user how to put your software in practice, within boundaries off course.
To use your car analogy, however safe you can make it, you can't prevent people from driving it off the track.
And if I choose to let my car sit in the garage over the weekends, I can

[Gostev]

To use your car analogy, however safe you can make it, you can't prevent people from driving it off the track.

Indeed, there are reasonable limits to what we can do

However, taking this very analogy even further:

a) Nevertheless, we do want to ensure that inexperienced driver does not slip off the track accidentally, without wanting to do so... think ABS/EBD. These systems severely limit what 1% of those professional drivers can do with the car, and this makes them really upset (just like lack of knobs in our current scheduler upsets you). However, these same systems make cars really safe for the remaining 99% of regular drivers, who are primary buyers anyway.

b) That said, we do recognize the needs of professional drivers too, and allow them to disable ABS/EBD (just like many cars do). Ability to start job from the command line is a perfect analogy here. It's not "in the way" on your dashboard, so this is something only advanced users will ever discover and will want to use - and this gives them absolute, full control over scheduling their backups. Total off-road

These are actually perfect analogies that should make our product design approaches more clear.

Given that VEB is almost a consumer product for all sorts of users, it is a safer bet to have it backing up computer every day (to capture any new data), without ability to exclude certain days. Sure, no exclusions means useless (and tiny) restore points created on days when no data actually changes. So, excluding is very tempting. But one day, having this restore point may make a world of difference. Because you never know what will happen on those originally excluded days a week, a month, a year from now.

[apronk]

b) That said, we do recognize the needs of professional drivers too, and allow them to disable ABS/EBD (just like many cars do)

But here's where the flaw in your analogy shows up
The disable ABS/EBD button in the car is plain as day in the dashboard for anyone to see and press.
So it can not be related to a hidden commandline option

Another approach; I can imagine you being on the road a lot, as many of us consultants are.
So when you are in your hotel, or on a location without fast internet (I mean slower then FTTH) then VEB consumes pretty much all available upstream bandwidth.
Especially because like most people you set up a secure connection to your workplace if you need data or need to work on shared projects.
And while the backup is running you can't do anything, VEB cripples pretty much everything network related at that moment for the duration of the backup.
Now I imagine not a lot of people have this particular case on a frequent basis and if they do they can change the schedule.
But to get back to the core of the issue, I don't think it is Veeam's intention to render the bandwidth useless during the backup.

Don't get me wrong I don't expect Veeam to come up with analyzing software or even latency measuring before starting the backup job.
I'm just trying to show scenario's where the Daily schedule can cripple quite some use cases.

Off course this is now fixed by commandline, and this helps us out a great deal, but I'm concerned for the users who travel (salesmen, consultants etc.) who will do most of their work on the road where this seriously impacts their work environments.

And in the line of quotes, here's one from Benjamin Franklin which really suits this discussion in my opinion: "People willing to trade their freedom for security deserve neither and will lose both"

[Gostev]

Button might be there, but at least in all of my cars it was not easy and obvious to activate (for example, you had to hold if for 5-10 seconds). Not something an average user would figure out without actively pursuing and reading manuals.

Another approach; I can imagine you being on the road a lot, as many of us consultants are.
So when you are in your hotel, or on a location without fast internet (I mean slower then FTTH) then VEB consumes pretty much all available upstream bandwidth.
Especially because like most people you set up a secure connection to your workplace if you need data or need to work on shared projects.
And while the backup is running you can't do anything, VEB cripples pretty much everything network related at that moment for the duration of the backup.
Now I imagine not a lot of people have this particular case on a frequent basis and if they do they can change the schedule.
But to get back to the core of the issue, I don't think it is Veeam's intention to render the bandwidth useless during the backup.

Sure, but now we came back to a totally different issue we both agree with anyway. Lack of control what network connection can and cannot be used for backup is definitely something that we are planning to address. You can see we already thought about these sort of problems right in v1, where we provided an option to restrict backup over metered connections (by the way, totally unique functionality not found in any other product on the market).

[apronk]

Unfortunately that option to restrict over metered connections has always been greyed out :-/

Whilst I am very, no I am extremely happy with those intentions, my reasoning was different.
And your intentions are much better than a more advanced scheduler, I just wanted to point out that in the business case of travellers it would be handy if you could specify which days VEB should backup (when in the office) and when it should not (when on the road).

Anyway both ideas lead to Rome, yours just drives us in a Cadillac

[Gostev]

We can certainly agree on that one

Unfortunately that option to restrict over metered connections has always been greyed out :-/

This setting requires Windows 8 or later, as there is simply no way to tag a network connection as metered in other Windows versions.

[apronk]

This setting requires Windows 8 or later, as there is simply no way to tag a network connection as metered in other Windows versions.

Ah, that is a pity, we all use Windows 7 x64 and that won't change anytime soon.
Not even for Windows 8.2 (10).