Discussions related to exporting backups to tape and backing up directly to tape.
Post Reply
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Good Afternoon, I'm trying to track down why I'm getting very slow transfer speeds recently. I run two D2D jobs -

Daily continuous incremental keeping 7 restore points and then a separate weekly full.

Then each day the daily is written to tape so it has to convert the chain into a full, and then once a week the weekly is copied to a separate tape pool.

Library is an MSL2024 with LTO6.

The daily tape run I get ~45MB/Sec, the weekly I get ~113MB/Sec.

I used to get much better performance on the daily - I didn't really notice the change in speed for a while but could it be because one of the VMs now has dedupe enabled?

thanks :)
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

By dedupe you refer to Windows Server Deduplication? If so, that can pretty much explain the difference in current and previous speeds, as now data needs to rehydrated prior to being archived. Thanks,
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Hi, Ah ok - I was under the impression that veeam and windows dedupe complemented each other? https://www.veeam.com/blog/how-to-get-u ... ation.html or is that purely for the D2D?

thanks
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

Not sure whether I follow you here.

Backup to tape job takes data stored on disk and archives it to tape. Since in your case data is stored on disk in deduplicated state, it has to be rehydrated (or returned to its original state in other words) before it can be written to tape. Thus, the performance decrease.

Thanks.
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Hi - so backup to disk is deduped, but to tape is not? But otherwise compressed? Is there not a way of keeping it deduped?

thanks
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

Getting back to original question - by dedupe you refer to Windows Server Deduplication or VB&R backup job one?
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Windows, yes. We have an enourmous amount of very similar files that aren't accessed often but need to be available - so it works very well for us saving nearly a terabyte of space.
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

So backup to disk is deduped, but to tape is not?
Correct, because Windows Server Deduplication mechanism does not cover tapes, only files stored on a file system.
But otherwise compressed?
Data can be compressed by your tape device, if it supports that.
Is there not a way of keeping it deduped?
Nope, as I've mentioned already, data needs to be rehydrated before being written to tapes.

Thanks.
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Sorry for the delay in replying. I think my issue is a combination - when I run the weekly backup that does a full then copies it to tape. Currently 5 hours to disk and then 6 hours for the copy to tape.

Whereas the daily incremental takes half an hour to save the changed data, then over 6 hours for the merge. Then a further 9 hours to send a full backup to tape.

The data is the same so it's the method that's adding 4 hours to the daily backup. I think I need to invest in a load more disk space and change to a full daily backup instead of incremental as well?
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

I'm slightly confused by your current jobs' implementation and goal you're trying to achieve. So, correct me if I'm wrong:

- You have two backup jobs (daily and weekly ones)
- Both process the same set of VMs
- Both use the same mode (forward incremental with active full)
- Both are pointed to the same repository
- Both get archived to tapes
- Jobs get archived by different backup to tape jobs
- One tape job that processes weekly backup job copies only full backups
- Another tape job that processes daily backup job copies both full and incremental backups
- Incremental cycle of tape job that processes daily backup job much longer that full cycle of tape job that process weekly backup job?

(And deduplication is enabled where? Repository server, backup server, inside VM that gets backed up by two backup jobs?)

Thanks.
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Hi, sorry if I've been unclear - still quite new to backups in general and Veeam. I've added notes below
v.Eremin wrote:I'm slightly confused by your current jobs' implementation and goal you're trying to achieve. So, correct me if I'm wrong:

- You have two backup jobs (daily and weekly ones) - YES
- Both process the same set of VMs - YES
- Both use the same mode (forward incremental with active full) - NO - the daily runs forward incremental keeping 5 restore points, the weekly is a simple full
- Both are pointed to the same repository - YES
- Both get archived to tapes - YES
- Jobs get archived by different backup to tape jobs - YES - as you don't have a daily GFS option
- One tape job that processes weekly backup job copies only full backups - YES
- Another tape job that processes daily backup job copies both full and incremental backups - NO - it builds a full from the incrementals (each incremental is ~20-30GB so not huge)
- Incremental cycle of tape job that processes daily backup job much longer that full cycle of tape job that process weekly backup job? - YES

(And deduplication is enabled where? Repository server, backup server, inside VM that gets backed up by two backup jobs?) - On one inside VM.

Thanks.
veremin
Product Manager
Posts: 20270
Liked: 2252 times
Joined: Oct 26, 2012 3:28 pm
Full Name: Vladimir Eremin
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by veremin »

it builds a full from the incrementals (each incremental is ~20-30GB so not huge)
Ok, so it's full backup cycle in both cases (not incremental versus full): daily job synthesizes virtual full backup directly on tapes, weekly one copies full backup to tapes. Due to the differences in nature (direct copy against synthesized restore point creation) those jobs cannot be compared fairly.

You can switch daily job to reversed incremental mode, so that latest restore point (which is always a full backup) gets directly archived to tapes on daily basis. Otherwise, if the proposed scenario is not applicable, you might want to open a ticket with our support team and investigate whether the performance of virtual full backup can be improved somehow.
(And deduplication is enabled where? Repository server, backup server, inside VM that gets backed up by two backup jobs?) - On one inside VM.
Then, disregard what I've written previously, since I was talking about enabling deduplication on top of backup repository. Usage of deduplication inside VM should result in bigger increments, that's it.

Thanks.
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Hi,

Thank you - I've now removed dedupe from the server and whilst it's costing me a lot more disk space, I'm now down to sub-3 hour runs so I'll take that!

Thanks :)
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

Hi All,

I have one more issue to solve - I have my weekly and monthly GFS tape pools. Both copy a weekly full D2D backup.

Weekly works fine, but for some reason the monthly runs twice - once on the first Sunday of the month as scheduled, but then it runs again the next day (and correctly finds no new files so doesn't do anything) Any idea how I can trace why this is doing this?

Thanks :)
Dima P.
Product Manager
Posts: 14396
Liked: 1568 times
Joined: Feb 04, 2013 2:07 pm
Full Name: Dmitry Popov
Location: Prague
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by Dima P. »

Do you have all the source restore points in place for the Monthly backup date? GFS job can restart itself if source jobs are running.
bucoops
Enthusiast
Posts: 48
Liked: 5 times
Joined: Aug 01, 2016 6:37 pm
Full Name: Richard
Contact:

Re: Slow backup to tape - windows dedupe?

Post by bucoops »

I believe so - it uses the same source as the weekly (which I've spotted also runs twice sometimes) and that only takes 4 hours or so.

I've finally got the last 10Gbe link in so everything should run quite a bit faster now so will re-jig the timings and see if that helps.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 19 guests