VAW + VBR 9.5U3 Integration

[Fledge]

Apologies in advance for the long post...
Familiar with VBR and VEB/VAW as largely independent but trying to plan an integrated VBR 9.5U3 + VAW set up

Background
We are moving from an on-prem ESXI hyper-visor environment to a secure cloud (vCD) facility
We still need our own backup solution for a large data host (plus potentially others) but will have no hyper-visor level access
In addition this is a locked down isolated environment with no internet access
So are looking at using a VBR 9.5U3 server to deploy and manage Veeam Agents on relevant hosts in the environment

To backup the main large data host we need to accomplish two main objectives: -

1) 'VM' backup
i.e. the C: drive OS VM itself
(this for DR cover and currently in the on-prem set up is a daily VBR job)

2) 'Data' backup
i.e. backup of other drives mounted on the host that contain large amounts (15Tib) of user level data
(this covers both DR and file level restore to address user data problems - in the on-prem set up this is a VAW job that runs 3 times a day)


So on to the questions...

Q. - Multiple Backups & Schedules
For item 2) above
Within the VBR scheduler we can use the 'every 1 hour' option for period and then use the 'Schedule…' drill down to configure what hours the job should actually run (e.g. 3 times a day). With the VBR 9.5U3 / VAW integration will this approach work the same for VAW schedules ?
(as i understand it VBR 9.5U3 integration takes over the schedule for VAW agents it controls)
Does this specifically require the VAW Server version (there mention of advanced scheduler options for VAW Server) or is it the same for Workstation or Server ?

For item 1) above
In addition to a backup set with its own schedule for item 2), could you also have another schedule for a separate job that just backs up the C: drive ?
i.e. another VAW job on the same host that ran once a day (outside the schedule for the data drive backup job) that backed up just the C: drive

The thinking about keeping separate backup sets probably mainly around the restore options for any potential rebuild - worst case I guess we could backup the whole machine 3 times a day i.e. include the C: drive in the item 2) backups above. Just trying to verify what our options are

Q. - VAW Installer
With the VBR 9.5U3 / VAW integration - do you have to initially install the VAW agent on the individual hosts?
i.e. you cannot do initial deploy from VBR 9.5U3
What is the situation with subsequent VAW upgrades, can they be pushed from VBR 9.5U3 ?

Any problems with installing a 'trial' version of VAW Server, for initial set up and testing with a lic VBR 9.5U3 install, and then after trial period expires adding VAW Server lic to VBR 9.5U3 ? i.e. will it just work and pick up the paid for lic or would you have to re-install VAW

Q. - Volume v File Level backup
Previously we've always used the Volume level backup option for the data drives

There some large temp processing files, often with high delta rates of change, in the data drives that might be good to exclude from backups
To do this would necessitate using the File level backup option but have always been put off that by the extra time required for such backups

Any practical experience with File level backup on large volumes i.e. for a 10TiB volume would it be unpractical to use File level option ?
I know this is kind of a how long is piece of string question...
Volume level backups come with their own baggage - e.g. if you grow the volume as storage needs increase, it forces a new full backup


Thanks in advance

[ejenner]

First Q: I tend to think of what I want to be able to restore as separate items rather than assuming a full backup of the entire computer is going to cover me for all options. I've been in plenty of scenarios in the past when I have a backup but because of the way that backup was configured it is impossible to restore without causing huge disruption. So my advice would be to go for granular selections so you have the option to recover individual parts of a configuration. For instance, if you wanted to restore just a system-state but had to mount a 15tb file to get to it.... you'd be waiting hours to be able to restore a few GB. Other people will have different views on this but my personal preference is for highest granularity so I have the most flexible set of options in a case of having to restore. A C: drive backup of the files isn't the same as a system state backup. Also, for physical machines a .ISO recovery file for booting the hardware is useful for bare metal recovery. Number of times per day is completely up to you. We have backups for machines which run once a week because they're not that important. I think maybe you were also asking if the free version was any good? I'd say because it's free it has some stuff you'd usually take for granted disabled. So difficult to use. The limitations don't stop you doing a backup... but probably only possible to implement in very small environments in limited ways. That's on purpose, as you're getting a limited version free of charge. So no complaining.

Second Q: I've found the deployment a bit confusing for VAW as there does not seem to be any control for performing that function specifically as you'd find for similar jobs in other pieces of agent-based software. The most painless way I've found of doing that deployment is to configure the job and the agent should install on the first run of the job. But you want to make sure the agent installs successfully (permissions problems could prevent it, for instance) so you want to run your initial job straight away rather than assuming it will be successful after hours. Licensing is well implemented. If you have to change license it won't require you to reinstall anything. A trial license isn't limited.

Third Q: I believe with guest file indexing enabled it will give you granular file level restores from volume level backups. The bigger the backup file the longer it will take to mount it. But the backup being volume level does not mean you can't pick individual files out of the backup. It mounts the file on the repository and then you pick out what you want to restore. I have a similar size file server but we're split into 6 volumes which means the individual backup sizes are only massive, not gigantic.

[PTide]

Does this specifically require the VAW Server version (there mention of advanced scheduler options for VAW Server) or is it the same for Workstation or Server ?

Right, Workstation and Server modes provide different schedule controls.

In addition to a backup set with its own schedule for item 2), could you also have another schedule for a separate job that just backs up the C: drive ?

No yet, but this one is coming soon : )

With the VBR 9.5U3 / VAW integration - do you have to initially install the VAW agent on the individual hosts?

No, VBR can deploy agents automatically.

What is the situation with subsequent VAW upgrades, can they be pushed from VBR 9.5U3 ?

Yes, VBR can do that too.

Any problems with installing a 'trial' version of VAW Server, for initial set up and testing with a lic VBR 9.5U3 install, and then after trial period expires adding VAW Server lic to VBR 9.5U3 ? i.e. will it just work and pick up the paid for lic or would you have to re-install VAW

It will just work. VAW will consume the license automatically (provided that the license is available on VBR and is valid)

Any practical experience with File level backup on large volumes i.e. for a 10TiB volume would it be unpractical to use File level option ?

Here is the most recent one. As usual, YMMV : )

Hope this helps,

Thanks!

[Fledge]

Hi PTide

Thanks for the replies - can I summarise as follows

1) The VBR 9.5U3 controlled VAW agent can only have one 'target' job specified
i.e. if you have backup D: drive volume as a VAW job you cant have another separate job for backup C: drive volume
Q. Any general indication of when that new func will become available ?

2) You can schedule daily multiple runs of a VBR 9.5U3 controlled VAW agent job, if the VAW agent is the 'Server' version
If the the VAW agent is 'Workstation' you can only schedule a job to run a max of once a day ?
If the agent is standalone you you can set any version to run multiple times a day using local scheduler - so VBR 9.5U3 controlled is more restrictive ?

On the VBR deploy of agents topic - does that mean the different VAW agent installs are all pre-bundled within the VBR 9.5U3 install ?
Or i have to download and place somewhere for VBR to pickup from
I've seen the reference "The required version of Veeam Agent must be available on the distribution server." re: upgrades

Thanks in advance,

[Fledge]

Hi Ejenner,

Thanks for your comments and thoughts on the topics
Agree with the comments around separate C: drive /system backup and that largely why am trying to set that up in the new environment but there agent based backup is the only option and hence why am trying to clarify exactly what is possible on VAW (either standalone or, ideally, VBR controlled)

Have you managed to set up a VAW agent to run more than one 'target' job on the same host ?
i.e. one VAW job to backup say a D: drive volume and another separate VAW job on the same host to separately backup the C: drive volume
The thread is specifically on VBR 9.5U3 controlled VAW agent but if you can achieve it on a standalone VAW agent we might have to go that way

Thanks again,

[Fledge]

" In addition to a backup set with its own schedule for item 2), could you also have another schedule for a separate job that just backs up the C: drive ? "

No yet, but this one is coming soon : )

In previous posts, for example the below at then end of 2017

veeam-agent-for-windows-f33/veeam-agent ... 44275.html

Dimap and Gostev point out that:

One other thing to note is that we do support multiple *managed* jobs for servers in the upcoming Veeam Backup & Replication 9.5 U3

I notice that on the current web page shown in the above image, the 'Support for Multiple Jobs' line has been removed

Q. So what is the status for the Server version of VAW - are multiple jobs a supported product feature or not
And if 'not' when is it slated for arrival ?

thanks,

[PTide]

Are you sure it's Agent for Windows tab? There are two different tabs on the same page, and it looks like you've looked into Linux's one:

Backup and Recovery via command line

Regarding this one:

One other thing to note is that we do support multiple *managed* jobs for servers in the upcoming Veeam Backup & Replication 9.5 U3

Sorry for not being specific - multiple jobs support for standalone VAW is yet to come, however you can already create multliple managed jobs for VAW in VBR (provided that you have VAW in Server mode).

Thanks!

[Dima P.]

Hi Fledge,

In previous posts, for example the below at then end of 2017. DimaP and Gostev point out that...

It's true. As Pavel stated this functionality is available today but only for agent managed by Veeam B&R Console (whenever you use agent management functionality you can create multiple managed by backup server jobs with type server). Cheers!

[ejenner]

Hi Ejenner,

Thanks for your comments and thoughts on the topics
Agree with the comments around separate C: drive /system backup and that largely why am trying to set that up in the new environment but there agent based backup is the only option and hence why am trying to clarify exactly what is possible on VAW (either standalone or, ideally, VBR controlled)

Have you managed to set up a VAW agent to run more than one 'target' job on the same host ?
i.e. one VAW job to backup say a D: drive volume and another separate VAW job on the same host to separately backup the C: drive volume
The thread is specifically on VBR 9.5U3 controlled VAW agent but if you can achieve it on a standalone VAW agent we might have to go that way

Thanks again,

VBR will allow as many job definitions for a single server as you want. i.e. if you wanted to backup the system state in one job, C: drive in another job. D: drive in another job. SQL in another job... all will work together. It only pushes the agent install on the first run of the first job.