NFR keys duration

[Salm]

Hello !

First of all, let me know if this is the wrong place to post this.

Since I'm using Veeam at work, I've also deployed a Veeam server for my homelab using the NFR license that is provided here : https://go.veeam.com/free-nfr-veeam-availability-suite

As the link states :

This license allows for non-production use of Veeam Availabilty Suite™ 9.5 in your home lab, without any feature limitations for one year, 2 sockets. The license works for both VMware and Hyper‑V environments.

Which is perfect for a homelab and generally trying stuff before doing it in production.

Since Update 4 changes the licensing, I checked if the page was still active before updating my lab and, good news, it is !

However, the received key is a 30 days trial key, instead of the 1 year NFR that we used to get.

Is this change permanent, or is it just a "launch day mishap" ?

I really hope we can still get 1 year NFR keys (with however instances is a 2 socket equivalent) as getting a key once a year is fine, but one key every month is just a PITA.

Thanks !

[Dima P.]

Hello Salm,

No, NFR keys should remain valid for one year, so that's most likely an upgrade bug as old NFR socket-based license should be replaced with new license key with instance counters. Thanks for sharing, we will investigate this issue and get it fixed. I'll update this thread with the results.

EDIT:

Can you please try to download the NFR key via that page again - looks like the NFR license has correct counters.

Code: Select all

Edition=Enterprise Plus
Expiration date=23/01/2020
Instances=10

[Salm]

Hello,

I tried again and got a 1 year/10 instances key.

Thank you !

[Dima P.]

That looks like a temporary glitch due to the introduction of Instance licensing, glad to hear that it works as expected now. Cheers!

[JHTBHgJf]

Can you clarify what 10 instances refers to please? Does it mean 10 VMs being backed up as that definitely doesn't work for me anymore in my homelab.

[Dima P.]

JHTBHgJf,

10 instances is equivalent from 10 VMs in terms of license counters. Open license information under General menu to get the list of all licensed objects.

[JHTBHgJf]

Thank you, although you confirmed my fear. This won't work work for my use case once my current license expires. I use VB&R to backup a small homelab based on a Xeon-d server running around 30 VMs, although there are a lot of VMs per socket, they are all light utilization, things like FTP server, AWstats, LibreNMS, Unifi/Ruckus controller, Homeassistant, Owntracks, ttrss, gitea etc.
Is there any chance Veeams recent decision might be re-evaluated, or an alternative homelab focused NFR/reduced price license introduced to address the gap?

[Gostev]

I believe the final number for ITPro NFRs is going to be 20 instances for now, but I understand this will not make much of a difference to you personally due to the high VM density per socket. Would you consider deploying the second backup server?

As far as the alternatives, let's brainstorm together. There NFRs are currently a huge black hole for Veeam, and it's not impossible they will eventually be discontinued completely because of that in favor of Community Edition, unless we can figure a way to put more control around them.

Selling them really cheap is certainly not an option at this time, because we're going to lose money on such sales - unless we implement a web store just for them and sell direct... but then again, it does not solve the main issue of lack of control how these licenses are actually used - how do they know we're dealing with the legitimate homelab user like yourself. Just thinking out loud: would it be acceptable if each NFR license required mandatory automated usage reporting (similar to what our rental type licenses for service providers require), and would deactivate itself if unable to perform such reporting?

[nickveldrin]

Hello, I wanted to comment, since I, too, am a dense homelab user.

Currently I am VCP-DCV and VCP-NV as well as Microsoft MCSA in Windows Server, so my familiarity with VMware and Microsoft Servers is quite high, as is my experience with NSX and network virtualization. Just VMware + a small NSX deployment would exceed the 10 instances, and this is before any AD and infrastructure supporting VMs. I'm trying to learn the full VMware SDDC, as presented in their VMware Validated Design documentation, and this too, would exceed any counters.

Assuming using a single high ram server (r720xd in my case):

Core VMware VMs = (1x PSC, 1x vCSA) = 2
Core NSX VMs = (1x NSX Manager, 3x NSX Controllers, 2x ESG for north/south, 1x UDLR for universal eastwest, 1x DLR for local eastwest, 1x ESG load balancer) = 9

-- ADD AD + SUPPORTING MS INFRASTRUCTURE --
AD = (2x AD DCs) = 2
Updates = (1x WSUS) = 1
Deployment = (1x MDT and Windows Deployment Services for PXE boot) = 1

--- VMware VVD SDDC ---
Anywhere from 16 to 40+ VMs, depending on how wide you want to build it.

So, just core VMware + NSX = 11, plus MS Infrastructure, 4 = 15. If you'd just add random home VMs on Linux or Windows Server/Client, the Veeam Backup Server, and a Veeam Proxy server, a 20 pack would may or may not be enough.

However, for folks that do want to learn more, maybe a 50 pack would make more sense? I know if I'm spinning up VMs to try Microsoft's System Center, that too would be another dozen VMs. I personally also run System Center Operations Manager on my environment, mostly because it gathers a lot of great data that i can reference as i see my storage usage growing.

[nickveldrin]

*A quick addendum to my earlier post*

I forgot if we wanted to try other solutions, like VMware Horizon, which has a handful (5+ VMs) of services that require additional AD services (Need offline+intermediate certificate authority, an ADFS server would be good too 3+ VMs, and a DMZ load balancer from NSX - 1 VM), that adds up too, since here's 9 more VMs.

Most importantly, folks that are studying for certification exams and have a homelab to do it on, are likely doing it to either expand knowledge for current work purposes, or to expand career options for future work purposes.

So basically, if an engineer is studying advanced topics and can earn professional certifications, allowing these folks to build out large scale solutions at home would be advantageous for Veeam. These engineers will have need for backups at the least, and offering additional NFR licenses for other products in the portfolio would also help these engineers become familiar with Veeam's overall solution set.

By allowing this engineer to succeed and use the Veeam product set in their homelab, this engineer can then evangelize Veeam's product suite to his current or future job, whether or not this engineer is looking for new employment.

[VirtualUser1]

I am a long time Veeam NFR user. I am VCP and my work is a Veeam service provider where we all run and love Veeam. I also do IT Consulting on the side and have recommended (And followed through) with the purchase of around 9 Veeam B&R licences for my customers (Mainly because I know how to use it)

I have found running Veeam in my home setup a major help, as I get 10x the experience I would just using it at work. I can also try out new features in an actual environment before attempting it on our production environments

But the new licencing model and the NRF keys being limited to 10 instances has just put a major halt in my home backup plan. I have 16 virtual machines running at home which I backup with Veeam. Now I am faced with the task of either removing backups for 6 of those VM's, or switching to a different solution. Neither are very fun, as I already run as few systems as possible, and I like Veeam. 16 may sound like a lot of VM's, but I have moved to just about everything being in VM's, partly because of how easy they are to backup using Veeam...

Obviously we can't really complain about free products, but it's my opinion that 20 instances would be a much better number to give for the NFR, especially since it was virtually unlimited before.

I just thought I would give my opinion on this, as this will very likely result in me switching solutions if at all possible, which would then move my backup focus away from Veeam. Right now if I need something backed up, I don't even bother looking at alternatives since Veeam works so well

Hopefully this feedback is welcome!

Thanks!

EDIT: I just got the new instance licence and it shows as only 10. Has the 20 instances been rolled out yet? I have more than 10 but under 20 VM's (For now...) so it would be great to get 20

[Salm]

Hello !

Just posting to say that I agree with everything that was said above : limiting the NFR license to 10 VMs when it was previously socket limited is a move that will only make admins look for another solution (and running 2 or more Veeam servers against the same environment is not really an ideal solution (nor is it similar to how it would be deployed in production)).

As for the instance count :

EDIT: I just got the new instance licence and it shows as only 10. Has the 20 instances been rolled out yet? I have more than 10 but under 20 VM's (For now...) so it would be great to get 20

I'm obviously not a Veeam employee, but I asked a few questions to my Veeam channel partner contact about the NFR licensing (we use such a license internally as well for lab/training purposes).

They told me that "currently, only NFR keys with 10 instances exist". The wording suggests that it may change in the future, at least for channel partners.

This doesn't really indicate anything about the public NFR license thought.

Cheers !

[Gostev]

Bonjour, Salm - yes, all Veeam partners can already get 100 instance Partner NFR keys through their sales rep.

ITPro NFR keys being discussed here were incorrectly set to 10 instances, and will be updated to 20 instances shortly.
The logic for this conversion was 2 sockets = 10 VMs per socket = 20 instances (20 VMs).

[Gostev]

The fix for ITPro NFR license instances quantity is live now.

[VirtualUser1]

Do I have to re-apply? Mine still shows as 10

[DGrinev]

Yes, you should request\generate a new one which is fixed now. Thanks!

[Gostev]

Yeah, unfortunately we can't change the file you have already downloaded
At least not without leveraging some "spooky action at a distance" (c) Einstein

[VirtualUser1]

Well, clearly...

But it still shows as 10 in the licencing portal, and if I re-download it its still a 10 instance licence. If I apply it to the software, its again a 10 user licence

[Gostev]

AFAIK you should be requesting one from the dedicated NFR license promo page vs. customer portal? I did not know it is also shown in the customer portal, but it makes sense that once the license has been issued, it will remain the same until it is re-generated based on the new request through the NFR promo page.

I've also asked team to reset/remove the already generated licenses to prevent further confusion.

Thanks for bringing this up!

[JTT]

However, for folks that do want to learn more, maybe a 50 pack would make more sense? I know if I'm spinning up VMs to try Microsoft's System Center, that too would be another dozen VMs. I personally also run System Center Operations Manager on my environment, mostly because it gathers a lot of great data that i can reference as i see my storage usage growing.

I also have a large numbers on Microsoft and Linux VM´s running in my homelab. I fully agree with this idea, that a 50 VM pack license for NFR is reasonable.

[nickveldrin]

I wonder if, for NFR, we can keep the socket license that we had been using in the past?

Keep what was changed for production customers and move to the instance based approach, but as long as we have the socket license for NFR, then both sparse and dense homelab users can learn their technical certifications and become veeam evangelists as they enjoy the features/capabilities of veeam within their environments.

[Gostev]

@JTT as a Veeam partner, you should be using 100 instances partner NFR license, instead of 20 instances IT Pro one.

@Nick not for the long term, as socket-based license does not cover half of the workloads Veeam can protect today - and by the end of the year, it will only cover one third or so. Besides, true Veeam evangelists will never be refused a bigger NFR, they just need to reach out to our SM team with request.

[nickveldrin]

@gostev - oki, that makes sense.

Thank you for the info!

[LogicalApex]

I believe the final number for ITPro NFRs is going to be 20 instances for now, but I understand this will not make much of a difference to you personally due to the high VM density per socket. Would you consider deploying the second backup server?

As far as the alternatives, let's brainstorm together. There NFRs are currently a huge black hole for Veeam, and it's not impossible they will eventually be discontinued completely because of that in favor of Community Edition, unless we can figure a way to put more control around them.

Selling them really cheap is certainly not an option at this time, because we're going to lose money on such sales - unless we implement a web store just for them and sell direct... but then again, it does not solve the main issue of lack of control how these licenses are actually used - how do they know we're dealing with the legitimate homelab user like yourself. Just thinking out loud: would it be acceptable if each NFR license required mandatory automated usage reporting (similar to what our rental type licenses for service providers require), and would deactivate itself if unable to perform such reporting?

As another dense homelab user I feel like Veeam gave me what I've asked for while simultaneously taking away almost all I need. The socket limit was a challenge as it meant I could only backup one of my machines and I hoped for a day where Veeam would at least move that to 4 sockets. Today is that day, but the VM limit is so low I'm squeezed in a harsher way...

Why not go a route similar to VMUG (or join VMUG) alongside your trial or the smaller NFR? The current smaller NFR being available continues to let the community easily try out Veeam and learn its features. For those of us with larger labs for more focused training an option to access more instances can be a paid option at lab reasonable prices. The license would still be an NFR and the paid option can help to reduce abuse.

Atlassian is another example to glance at with their $10 licenses (although those are prod licenses I don't think Veeam needs to copy that aspect).

Veeam's NFR has been key to my VMWare learning as well as helping me to secure my home. I'd be happy to pay something to Veeam, but I can't spend $750/m...

[JTT]

@JTT as a Veeam partner, you should be using 100 instances partner NFR license, instead of 20 instances IT Pro one.

Thank You Gostev for the reply!
So do i understand correctly, that i can use my work related partner NFR license for my own home lab?

[Gostev]

Since it helps you to learn our product and thus be a better partner for Veeam, why not?
The only NFR limitation is that it cannot be used in a production environment.

[GrahamS]

Bonjour, Salm - yes, all Veeam partners can already get 100 instance Partner NFR keys through their sales rep.

ITPro NFR keys being discussed here were incorrectly set to 10 instances, and will be updated to 20 instances shortly.
The logic for this conversion was 2 sockets = 10 VMs per socket = 20 instances (20 VMs).

Hi Gostev,

I'm attempting to get the "100 instance Partner NFR keys", but am being told (The linked referenced was https://go.veeam.com/free-nfr-veeam-availability-suite)

20 qty is the maximum via that link. The maximum I can do for 1 year is a 12 socket key.

The 100 socket NFR is only available for 3 months and from memory it was created for a promotional period.

Is this not actually available?

[Gostev]

That is semi-correct, 100 instance Partner NFR key can only be issued by your Veeam partner manager, so you should contact them directly with request. They may be a little behind and still unaware of this possibility though, as the decision to provide such licenses to partners was taken about 3 weeks ago. If so, just ask them to talk to their management (or me, if everything else fails). Thanks!

[TXJustin]

Found this thread searching for resolution to a license issue (which I resolved by requesting new key as suggested by Dima P.)

Wanted to speak to the secondary topic of change to the NFR key.

Of course, there is no solution that is going to be ideal for everyone. I feel that the change is a good thing because of the flexibility that it allows. Like JHTBHgJf, I have a Xeon-D 1541 system that hosts all my "normal" lab VMs. Being a lab, most VMs are using little processing power throughout the day making the Xeon-D a great choice -- CPU power is on tap when needed without performing double-duty as a space heater and making my office uncomfortable.

Having been in the industry for 20 years, I've attained a level where I can budget and plan for a Supermicro Xeon-D based system with 128GB of RAM (today's price ~ $2452. Ouch, luckily I was in before RAM prices went crazy). For many years, that wasn't the case - you purchased used equipment that you can get a good deal on, re-purpose and Frankenstein parts the best you can to try and meet your needs. This would usually mean a few systems because one may max out on 16GB RAM, while another hosts 4 SQL instances using almost all the CPU and the NUC your buddy sold you only has 32GB of space and you can't afford a new m.2 drive right now. You get the idea.

Let's say there are 10VMs spread out on those three machines -- the previous NFR license wouldn't cover it, where the new would. Since the market is still pretty flooded with gen1 E5-2670s, you save up for a dual socket machine and a bunch of RAM allowing you to retire two of your other machines and the flexibility with the NFR instance license makes this an easy transition and no VMs get left out. When you are moving pieces around in order to create a specific environment (say to repro an issue) and you get ahead of yourself -- that's exactly when you are going to accidentally lose VMs, so being able to backup from more than 2 sockets worth of hosts is a lifesaver in this situation.

This scenario was the common home-lab setup. It was for me, friends and co-workers as we grew our careers. While hardware performance per dollar has increased, so have software requirements so it's still not cheap to build a home-lab and I think the majority of people are putting together a lab similar to how I was 15 years go -- best you can with what you got, and I see the NFR instance license being beneficial in that environment.

[VirtualUser1]

That is semi-correct, 100 instance Partner NFR key can only be issued by your Veeam partner manager, so you should contact them directly with request. They may be a little behind and still unaware of this possibility though, as the decision to provide such licenses to partners was taken about 3 weeks ago. If so, just ask them to talk to their management (or me, if everything else fails). Thanks!

Can the 100 Instance Partner NFR key be used for production, or is it just for testing?