Veeam and Wasabi

[rkobiske]

I'm interested in using Veeam with Wasabi to move our long term backups off site.

What I'm concerned about is the 30 minimum storage policy. If i move my backups into wasabi, and i keep 30 days worth of restore points (one per day), when it hits day 31 and moves the oldest incremental into the full backup, am i going to be charged for the price of my full backup that was just deleted for 30 days? Then the next day when that incremental is rolled into the full, and i going to be charged for another 30 days of that full? Is that full backup really deleted and thus recreated, or am i thinking about this incorrectly?

I'd like to have 30 days of backups in the cloud, and then the last 10 days on site.

Thanks!

[HannesK]

Hello,
and welcome to the forums.

when it hits day 31 and moves the oldest incremental into the full backup

I'm not sure what you mean, and this probably answers your question indirectly... there are no merges in the cloud.

I'd like to have 30 days of backups in the cloud, and then the last 10 days on site.

yes, that's possible: reverse incremental and move after 10 days (keep in mind that this does not allow restores if you loose your on-prem environment)


Best regards,
Hannes

[DGrinev]

Hi Rob, welcome to the community!

Also, review this article about available options with Wasabi, could be useful.

Thanks!

[rkobiske]

I'm not sure what you mean, and this probably answers your question indirectly... there are no merges in the cloud.

Ok, so this is good..then how does the cloud storage work?

yes, that's possible: reverse incremental and move after 10 days (keep in mind that this does not allow restores if you loose your on-prem environment)

How should I set this up so I can loose my on prem and be able to restore?

Is there an article that better explains how I should be setting this up? Really I'm waiting for v10 to be able to have two repositories, but for now I was going to use a backup copy job.

Thanks again for the help!

[Gostev]

Object storage has no file system, it's about storing, err... objects! Which in case of Veeam are individual blocks of an image-level backup. So, there are no backup files to maintain, merge, compact etc. as is the case with classic file systems.

You should just use a backup mode with periodic fulls. In this case, whatever is offloaded in the cloud will be self-sufficient.

[rkobiske]

Ah ok. Now this makes sense.

Do I have to do periodic fulls? I've only been doing incremental backups with synthetic fulls.

[jmmarton]

Synthetic fulls will work. It doesn't matter if you use active or synthetic fulls--as long as you "seal" the chain via some sort of full, then the old chain will get tiered to Capacity Tier.

Joe

[borsaid]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I believe this is relevant.

The option to configure the capacity tier "copy backups to object storage as soon as they are created" would still copy these backups to the capacity tier regardless of whether the chain is sealed, correct?

If that's the case, how does this affect the way the "deleted" storage is handled on Wasabi's end. When and what would be considered deleted as the chain continues?

What I'd like to see is a no nonsense way of visualizing the storage requirements and backup chain under a generic scenario. Say a 14 restore point retention policy, daily backups, weekly synthetic fulls, where the base backup is 50GB and average daily incrementals are 2GB each. What does that look like on local storage and THEN how much data am I realistically paying for on the Wasabi side if I'm paying for anything stored a minimum of 90 days?

[Gostev]

1. Correct.

2. My understanding is that Wasabi deletes immediately, but charges you for the remaining days of storage (up to 90 days minimum).

3. The following is to the best of my knowledge, of course normally you should be discussing peculiarities around "90 days minimum" rule handling with Wasabi themselves. But based on what I know, I personally would use this calculator with the ReFS checkbox selected, but instead of 14 set the retention to 90 (ReFS checkbox mimics the forever-incremental nature of our object storage integration).

[liorme]

hi. i know it's not a direct veeam issue, but maybe someone can tell me about their pricing? especially about their retention policy that i can't understand. their 90 day issue thingy . can someone explain it to me better?

[Natalia Lupacheva]

Hi,

I've moved your post to the existing thread with the questions on wasabi storage.
Please take a look at the discussions above, might give you a hint.

Thanks!

[liorme]

yeah, i've seen this post. but i still can't understand this retention thing. is it per file or per size?

let's say i have a 1tb account.
and now i've added 4tb to the account, so i have 5. so far so good
the next day i've deleted those 4, now i have 1 again. so i understand that i'll need to pay for those extra 4 for the next 3 months or so.
my question is another :
let's do the same example :

let's say i have a 1tb account.
and now i've added 4tb to the account, so i have 5. so far so good
the next day i've deleted those 4, now i have 1 again
now lets say i've now added another 4, and the next day deleted that too
and so on and so on
so, in effect, i never crossed the 5tb limit. will this mean they will bill me for 4tb for 90 days? or they will bill me for each 4tb i've deleted? if i deleted a batch of 4tb 10 times, will they bill me for 40tb for 90 days?

[dalbertson]

@wasabi_vilas can you answer here?

[liorme]

thank you for your reference

[dalbertson]

It’s also discussed a bit here on # 6&7. https://wasabi.com/cloud-storage-pricing/pricing-faqs/

[liorme]

yeah, i've read that. and it doesn't seem to answer my question above

[vbelagodu]

Hi @liorme,

Wasabi standard object policy is 90 days, Due to Wasabi's strategic relationship with Veeam, we have reduced that to 30 days. Please contact wasabi support (support@wasabi.com) to request this change.

To the question above, wasabi will charge for 39 TB of deleted storage and 1 TB of active storage in your example above. Think of this way, when an object gets uploaded to Wasabi - two timers kick off - active storage timer & delete storage timer, active storage timer doesnt have an expiration timer while delete storage timer will be set at 30 days, delete storage counts down from 30 to 0 - if you delete an object the day after you upload, you will see 29 days of delete storage charge against that object you deleted. Once you cross the 30 days, you will not see any delete storage charge for the deleted objects against your account.

Hope this helps,

Regards,
Vilas

[liorme]

oh ok, so it's per file\object and not per storage. wow, that's a bunch!
so for that kind of usage, it's quite expensive.
thank you for your clarification

[Mikeymas]

StoneFly cloud backup and DR gateway and services for Veeam is cost-effective when storing in Wasabi since it uses file system to store in Object storage. If blocks aware in the file and changes only that object in targeted storage.
It also gives the ability to restore the VM(s) in the cloud such as AWS or Azure without download and uploads so it is a really practical Cloud Backup and DR rather Veeam Archive feature.

[thomas.biesmans]

so for that kind of usage, it's quite expensive.

As with all tools, it's how you use it. Early-deletion fees are not uncommon in the public cloud. In this case I would think that you'd set your retention to at least 30d, because that's what they'll charge you for either way. Just a method to prevent someone from misusing their service by bursting data for short amounts of time. Sounds reasonable to me

[gummett]

Bear in mind Veeam isn't creating and deleting 1TB chunks - Veeam will only delete objects which are no longer in use by any retained recovery points. In short, as long as you have a backup retention of at least 30* days you won't get any 'early delete' charges.
(*or 90 if you haven't requested the change from Wasabi support)

For more info see https://www.veeam.com/wp-designing-budg ... -tier.html - it's written for AWS but will help you understand the principles.

[Gostev]

@Mikeymas you should not be using 3rd party cloud gateways in principle, because they render your whole Veeam deployment unsupported.

If blocks aware in the file and changes only that object in targeted storage.

Actually, this is how Veeam's native object storage integration works too

It also gives the ability to restore the VM(s) in the cloud such as AWS or Azure without download and uploads so it is a really practical Cloud Backup and DR rather Veeam Archive feature.

Veeam can also restore VMs directly to AWS or Azure without download and uploads (direct from object storage to IaaS Cloud), and we have many customers using this functionality for cloud DR. In fact, direct object to cloud restore seems to be one of the first tests many people are doing, because there have always been so many repeating topics and questions about this functionality in the past two years.

[vbelagodu]

Hi @liorme,

Wasabi has a minimum storage retention policy that means if stored objects are deleted before they have been stored with Wasabi for a certain number of days, a Timed Deleted Storage charge equal to the storage charge for the remaining days will apply. This policy is comparable to the minimum storage duration policies that exist with some AWS and other hyperscaler storage services. Due to Wasabi's strategic relationship with Veeam, we have reduced that to 30 days. Please contact wasabi support (support@wasabi.com) to request this change.

To the question above, wasabi will charge for 39 TB of deleted storage and 1 TB of active storage in your example above. Think of this way, when an object gets uploaded to Wasabi - two timers kick off - active storage timer & delete storage timer, active storage timer doesnt have an expiration timer while delete storage timer will be set at 30 days, delete storage counts down from 30 to 0 - if you delete an object the day after you upload, you will see 29 days of delete storage charge against that object you deleted. Once you cross the 30 days, you will not see any delete storage charge for the deleted objects against your account.

Hope this helps,

Regards,
Vilas

[Gostev]

@vbelagodu did you forget to add a comment? You just quoted yourself.

[yoman]

Hi.
Could somebody explain me how Veeam and Wasabi deal with incremental backup? We have everyday incremental backup job with retention policy of 31 restore points. It means, that everyday full backup merges with the oldest differential backup and then creates a new differential backup file.
So the question is how Wasabi counts constantly changing full backup file as it also changes it's name everyday?

[Andreas Neufert]

Please check this link for details: https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... ml?ver=110

[yoman]

I couldn't find anything related to my question there

[Andreas Neufert]

The topics from that subcategory describing this.

We do not offload the backup files. We offload the data on an incremental forever base. Each data block that we offload in an object can belong to multiple restore points and will be kept until the last restore point that need this block.

[Andreas Neufert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ag6_Jm1uG4
This is I think helpful