Feature request - NAS Backup tape support

[arlecchino]

Hi guys,
I've just upgraded to v10 and configured SMB-Backup, a feature we've really been waiting for.

SMB Backup to a local disk repository runs perfectly fine, but I can't setup a tape-job for that backup.
Neither can I select Tapeout as a secondary target in my SMB-Job nor can I add the SMB-Job as a source in my Tapejob.

Do you know this problem and is there a way to get my smb-backups archived on tape?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers
Max

[Dima P.]

Hello and welcome to the community Max.

Tape jobs currently does not support nas backup jobs, but you can continue using File to Tape jobs to backup content directly from the file share. Cheers!

[Samba222]

please have a look on this discussion few days ago... post358598.html#p358598

[lnulman]

Hi Dima
So, I will not be able to tape out EMC VNX CISF/ NFS jobs to tape? I have 450 licenses.

[Gostev]

Please see my recent answer in this topic. It would be better to continue the discussion in this topic though, since technically it's off-topic there

[Helferlein]

Hi Veeamers.

Just great the new NAS Share Backup in v10
Great job!

What I miss is that I add the File Backup Jobs to a Tape Backup Job....
Do I something wrong?

Regards
Peter

[Helferlein]

I did now add a special ScaleOut Repository just for NAS Share Backups.

Based on thats repository I did add a new Backup to Tape Jobs with the Repository itself as source.

I will see if the repository content will be written to tape as well and update this thread.

[Dima P.]

Hello Peter,

Backup to tape jobs do not support nas backup jobs. The ways to tape out nas:

1. File to tape job to backup data directly from the file share.
2. NDMP backup to tape job can be used, but requires nas device to support NDMP backup.

[Fredo]

Can you please add tape support for a NAS Backup?

I am aware that there are workarounds, but we need to backup our NAS Backup in the same way we backup our VMs (incl . the support for multiple tape drives). It is disappointing that NAS Backup does not support the same features/options as the backup of VMs.

[Gostev]

We have had File to Tape jobs functionality for many years now, so NAS backup functionality was specifically designed to cover the missing D2D file backup capability. Can you please clarify what functionality are you missing with File to Tape jobs? Thanks.

[Fredo]

Today we have only VMs. Also our Windows file servers are VMs (with unstructured data). We make a D2D of our VMs. In the weekend we make a weekly D2T of our VM backups (with 2 tape drives; the backup takes the whole weekend, currently 97TB in 70 hours). Now we want to move our file shares outside of a VM (we are investigating different hardware solutions, e.g. Dell Isilon) and make a NAS backup (to make our environment more simple and to skip the monthly Windows Updates for our file shares). We want to add these NAS backups to our weekly tape backup. I am not sure if our new solution would support the two workarounds and if they support multiple tape drives.

[Dima P.]

Fred,

Thanks for the details! From the top of my head Dell Isilon fully supports NDMP backup, so in theory, once you got the hardware, you can tape the file shares stored on Isilon out via NDMP. Cheers!

[Samba222]

More than once that we should use NDMP ... Ok, i gave it a second chance and tried it again
- no B2D Buffer, Streams barely working with LTO7
- no upscaling in Performance with more Streams/Shares to 1 Drive
- no File-Indexing, no Searching for a file
- no G-F-S Possibility
and because it's so great and i arranged me with this feature - nooooooo, it's an enterprise PLUS feature, i collapse
... so now i can use NAS-Backup with enterpise but not NDMP

nice weekend...
Regards,
Ronald

[Fredo]

Fred,

Thanks for the details! From the top of my head Dell Isilon fully supports NDMP backup, so in theory, once you got the hardware, you can tape the file shares stored on Isilon out via NDMP. Cheers!

Dear Dima, but does NDMP backup also supports more than one tape drive? Running a backup-to-tape with one drive does not make any sense for us (last weekend we wrote 97TB to tape).

I like this page: https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backu ... ml?ver=100

But it does not say anything about multiple tape drives (or parallel processing). It would be nice if the NAS Backup information would also be clear about it's limitations. I really hope that NAS Backup will support in the future tape instead of this workaround. It is just much better if the solutions of one vendor work in similar ways (I just expect a new feature as NAS Backup to deliver the same options as a VM backup).

Best, Fredo

[Samba222]

More than once that we should use NDMP ... Ok, i gave it a second chance and tried it again
- no B2D Buffer, Streams barely working with LTO7
- no upscaling in Performance with more Streams/Shares to 1 Drive
- no File-Indexing, no Searching for a file
- no G-F-S Possibility
and because it's so great and i arranged me with this feature - nooooooo, it's an enterprise PLUS feature, i collapse
... so now i can use NAS-Backup with enterpise but not NDMP

nice weekend...
Regards,
Ronald

oh, i forgot this in my post above: "For all NDMP devices, the backup chain stored on tapes will consist of 10 restore points maximum. On the 11th run, Veeam Backup & Replication will force an active full."
... means 3 times a month our complete Filer will dump an AF
... enterprise plus ...
cheers ... NOT

Regards,
Ronald

[Gostev]

Well, Enterprise Plus requirement is really not a problem these days, since you can convert to VUL (Veeam Universal License) at no extra costs, and VUL comes with Enterprise Plus edition functionality level.

But it's true that NDMP requires periodic fulls as a part of the protocol.

[Samba222]

Well, we are a VCSP Partner and run only one complete Veeam Environment for our own Infrastructure as well as for our Hosting-Customers.
I think in this case we can't upgrade anything of our "points" / rental license.

[Fredo]

But it does not say anything about multiple tape drives (or parallel processing). It would be nice if the NAS Backup information would also be clear about it's limitations. I really hope that NAS Backup will support in the future tape instead of this workaround. It is just much better if the solutions of one vendor work in similar ways (I just expect a new feature as NAS Backup to deliver the same options as a VM backup).

I just found the answer to my question of 3 April in another post: 'No, there is no parallel processing in file to tape jobs. As a workaround you can split descried folders across several file to tape jobs and schedule these jobs to run at the same time.'

Another work-around

[Dima P.]

Fredo,

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, parallel processing across multiple tape drives is currently supported only by backup to tape jobs. With file to tape job the only option is to split big folders across multiple file to tape jobs, but such workaround remains recommended approach for protecting huge amount of files anyway.

We are currently researching the ways to improve file to tape jobs, so thanks for sharing your requests!

[Regnor]

+1 for NAS tape support.

How can we secure the NAS backup files agains Ransomware?
Would it be possible to use a file2tape job on the backups?

[wishr]

Hi Regnor,

Yes, you may use the file to tape jobs to copy your NAS data to tapes. Currently, this is a recommended approach.

Thanks

[Regnor]

Hi Fedor, I meant the NAS backups, not the NAS data.

[Samba222]

... we're all eagerly awaiting it - this is exactly what is currently not possible

[Regnor]

@Ronald: So using a File2Tape job on the NAS backup repository files is not a solution?

[Samba222]

I don't think so ... what do you want to do with millions of file data junk? These files are blops of a DB, won't help you in recovery case. NAS Backup is not a 1:1 File Copy to Disk. So you can't search for anything on Tape etc.

[Dima P.]

So using a File2Tape job on the NAS backup repository files is not a solution?

It's an option but you have to keep in mind performance limitations of file to tape job (less than 1 million files per job with bundled SQL express for Veeam DB, more than 1 million would require standard SQL server and SSD as a storage for the DB).

what do you want to do with millions of file data junk? These files are blops of a DB, won't help you in recovery case. NAS Backup is not a 1:1 File Copy to Disk. So you can't search for anything on Tape etc.

I would not recommend backing up blobs via file to tape job: it wont be possible to search for the exact file and blobs are affected by retention, so you might backup some content twice.

[Regnor]

Of course single item recovery wouldn't be possible, but in case of a disaster/ransomware the NAS backup files would be safe.

[ylavitskas]

That is so weird that in August 2020 this feature still not implemented. I thinks it's "MUST HAVE"!

[Gostev]

Considering it was first requested less than a half a year ago, while we have an annual release cycle - not so weird but in any case, we're not actively working on this feature yet, as our existing File to Tape jobs has been a good workaround for the majority of customers, so we're focusing on more pressing functionality first for v11. We will revisit this when we do v12 planning. Thanks!

[Samba222]

V12?? ... latest after this answer it's totally weird!

Code: Select all

Considering it was first requested less than a half a year ago

... but the need / request to store all backups on tape is a little older ... but hey you are right, it's a totally new idea to safely store unstructured data on tape - maybe you can be the first *ironieoff* for those who did not understand