Forever incremental question

[TitaniumCoder477]

I am reading the HelpCenter material, and I see that the backup chain "implements the forever forward incremental backup method." Does this include the weekly, monthly, and yearly points if configured? That is, are those incremental, OR are they full backups, like I am accustomed to with GFS in Backup & Replication?

[nielsengelen]

The schedule is harmonised as much as possible meaning that if u use the same backup repository, we will re-use the existing chain and points. If it another repository, it’s an additional chain.

[TitaniumCoder477]

Ok, so if same repo used then harmonizing means only one full + incrementals that might end up being daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, etc. Basically, like GFS but incremental instead of multiple fulls?

[nielsengelen]

Yes, we also have details on how it works in the user guide.

[TitaniumCoder477]

Yes, I read that guide. But it doesn't appear to say anything about incremental/full, hence my question. I'll post a recommendation through the HelpCenter to add some clarity to that affect. Thanks!

[nielsengelen]

Hi James,

I will share your concern with our tech writers and we'll see how to improve it. Thanks!

[Lewpy]

The schedule is harmonised as much as possible meaning that if u use the same backup repository, we will re-use the existing chain and points. If it another repository, it’s an additional chain.

Hi Niels,
I am just after some clarification on this process, as I am new to Veeam Backup for Azure (but not new to Veeam's other products )
I've created a repository, that includes hot/cold/archive variants (one of the options when creating a repository).
I've created a policy that backs up daily to the hot repository (with 2 snapshots maintained, to allow incremental backups), and then with weekly/monthly/yearly to the cold repository (but with no snapshots, as it didn't seem to say any were needed).

• How does the chain then work for the weekly/monthly/yearly, if I don't have snapshots to allow increment/delta backups within those chains in another repository?
• Does the backup data get fed from the daily backup chain, or comes direct from the VM?
• Do I need to have snapshots also for the weekly, to allow it to perform increments/deltas?
• Do I also need to have snapshots also for the monthly/yearly, to allow it to perform increments/deltas?

Obviously, my initial drive is to spread the backups across tiered storage (to reduce costs) and reduce the (expensive) snapshot requirement per VM, but clearly need to optimise the backup creation process too.

Thanks,
Lewis.

[nielsengelen]

Hi Lewis,

Sorry for the delayed answer, I was a few days out and missed your reply. Hereby clarification on how it works.

1. The daily backup is stored in the hot repository and once the weekly restore point is created, it's copied to cold storage. Once it is there, we will try to re-use it as much as possible for monthly and yearly backups as well.

This means that we create a snapshot based upon your daily schedule, use that snapshot to store it into the hot repository and from there on, we don't require a snapshot for weekly/monthly/yearly.

2. Yes, direct from the daily snapshot chain.
3. 1 will be needed for weekly.
4. 1 will be needed for monthly (there is none for yearly).

What we recommend is to use hot storage for the daily and from there on you can choose. Cold is good for weekly/monthly/yearly however we also support archive tier for monthly and yearly to even further shrink down the costs. This highly depends on your company requirements and how often do you need to restore from backups over a month old.

[Lewpy]

Hi Niels,

I likewise had a few days out, and I appreciate your thorough explanation of the chain-creation process.
I had assumed this would be the case for the chains "cascading" in to lower tiered storage, but had a sudden moment of doubt (but really shouldn't have!)
Yes, the offloading to archive tier is interesting, but our initial view was it depends on how big the backup chain would be: if only a single backup, then it doesn't quite make sense; if a larger backup chain, then it makes sense.
This is due to the need to create a new backup chain in the archive tier, which therefore increases storage amounts compared to a just another delta backup in the backup chain being held in a higher tier. This initial bump in storage amount [and associated cost] would be offset if you then add several backups in the chain.
It's another cost/convenience finger-in-the-air [gu]estimation needed to be made while planning
So the backups will be monitored, and appropriate storage changes made once reality is determined.

Thanks,
Lewis.

[nielsengelen]

Hi Lewis,

Glad to help and I fully understand your goals and plans. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

[edbigfaceuk]

This has been a useful topic for me as we have recently deployed VBA, and I was unsure on the minimum snapshots to keep I needed...we wish to do a daily backup and keep for 7 days, a weekly backup and keep for a month and then 12 monthly backups. There are no additional snapshots set - just those automatically selected when you select the backup time/day etc.

We wish to have the number of snapshots as low as possible for costs savings, but obviously get the benefits of incrementals for the backups. Therefore, is it best to have the daily snapshot to keep set as 2 (to enable snapshot comparison and CBT), but have the weekly and monthly snapshots to keep as 0? Or do they need to be 1 or higher...?

Note, the backup server and storage repositories (hot - daily, cool - weekly and monthly) are in a different region to the protected VM workloads. This was done in case the VM region went offline, we would still have access to the backup server and storage accounts for DR purposes.

Thanks, Edward.

[Vitaliy S.]

Hi Edward,

Zero snapshots mean no incremental runs, so it is recommended to keep at least 1 snapshot all the time.

Thanks!

[edbigfaceuk]

Thanks Vitaliy - this is different to the response from nielsengelen a couple of comments earlier so can you confirm it's the case they are required for the weekly/monthly too (I know they are for the dailies)?

Do I need to have snapshots also for the weekly, to allow it to perform increments/deltas? No
Do I also need to have snapshots also for the monthly/yearly, to allow it to perform increments/deltas? No

Regards, Ed.

[nielsengelen]

Hi Ed,

Vitaliy is correct and to assure there won't be any confusion, I've adjusted my previous answer to correct it. You can set the snapshots to 0 but it will mean that we need to read the full snapshot compared to an incremental run.

We will look to clarify this within the product as well in an upcoming release.