Uninstalling linux/mac distribution packages raises error in B&R Physical Infrastructure menus

[hpadm]

I uninstalled the 1GB linux agent and mac agent redistributable packages from the main B&R host to reduce the install footprint, since all our hosts are windows-only.

In B&R Console - Inventory - Physical Infrastructure, if I click to edit the properties of any group, an error will pop up saying
"Cannot find the distribution store file ValPackageIndex.xml." (This is part of the linux agent package.)
I can swat the popup away and proceed as usual. It is just a minor UI nuisance and doesn't seem to affect the operation of the server.

If it's not a problem, it might be nice if the developers added an option in the B&R installer to skip these packages, and for B&R console to gracefully handle them not being present. (suggested as #05480433).

[Dima P.]

Hello hpadm,

Thank you for the feedback, I'll pass all the information to our RnD folks!

[hpadm]

It's just a minor suggestion, and I would be totally okay if they said that a full install is required and these components will not be made optional. I just see it as a possible easy storage optimization (the linux agent package is pretty big, probably needing to cater to multiple distros).

I'm also noting that despite uninstalling them, the .msi install files are still there in Backup\Packages. So it may be that they actually take up twice the space. Or it may be that uninstalling them doesn't actually do anything useful.

[Dima P.]

hpadm,

Thank you! Was wondering if you have any thoughts on how the package could be corrupted or modified?

"Cannot find the distribution store file ValPackageIndex.xml

Based on QA research this error usually represents that the original distribution package might be corrupted (thus must be renewed / re installed). Folks saw similar behavior couple of times when the msi files were 'modified' by the antivirus software.

[hpadm]

Oh that's an easy one. In this particular scenario, the package is not corrupted, it's outright uninstalled - so there are no files, but some part of B&R assumes that the files will be there.

The linux agent redistributable is kept at "C:\Program Files\Veeam\Backup and Replication\Backup\Packages\VALRedist.msi"
When this msi is installed, it just unpacks into "C:\ProgramData\Veeam\Agents\val\", and "Veeam Agent for Linux Redistributable" is added to Programs and Features. ValPackageIndex.xml is in the root of that directory and has a fairly simple structure.
If I leave VALRedist installed, there is no error popup. Also, if I put in a dummy file with just the top-level VALPackages element, indicating that there are no packages to be had, it also works with no error popup. So it does feel like a very 'soft' error.

[Dima P.]

hpadm,

Understood, thank you for the feedback!

[JPMS]

Thanks to @hpadm for diagnosing and documenting this.

Two and a half years later and this issue is still present in B&R (version 12.3.0.130)

Why hasn't this been addressed?

[hpadm]

Oh hey, this thing. Looking at the current status, the linux package was reduced from 1GB to 290MB, so the system image footprint is not as noticeable. Previously L/M/U took up 2x 1.5GB, now it's 2x 0.70GB. For comparison, the total size of VBR program+data is around 16GB.

As opposed to my original post, in version 12.2, editing any physical infrastructure group will now force a reinstall of VAL and VAU (but not VAM). If the msi files don't exist, it will cause job errors and prevent the changes to the group from being saved. So deleting these components will now interfere with basic functionality if you happen to need infrastructure changes. In addition, these components are reinstalled with every update to VBR, so it seems more trouble than it's worth.

[JPMS]

I hadn't got around to deploying a new Protection Group when I posted but I now see what you mean about the packages getting reinstalled.

I don't think this is just an issue about footprint though. A frequent theme in these forums is people complaining about B&R installing a load of stuff that they don't need and having to uninstall it after every upgrade, with no option to just not install them in the first place. This isn't just about footprint and resources, it is basic security, you don't have software installed/running that you don't need.

So now we have gone from the stage where we got an error message because something wasn't installed that I don't need, to either it reinstalling software I still don't need or the inability to update infrastructure if the installation files for something I don't need have been deleted!

It would seem to me that it would be far more sensible if the software checked for the presence of ValPackageIndex.xml only if you needed it, i.e. if you were trying to deploy a linux agent.

This is just one example of the B&R bloatware that seems to get worse with every release. I now have to uninstall about 35 programs every time I upgrade B&R (spread over Veeam server, Hyper-V host and Windows repository), either Veeam's own software or the dependencies that they need to run. Now it is even worse because removing some packages breaks B&R functionality even though I will never need the redistributables that are installed.

[PTide]

Hi,

A follow up question:

Do you really see all components being reinstalled on the hosts after VBR updates, or just some of them? If tha latter, then it's a normal behaviour as with VBR update we need to patch the components hosted on the infra hosts (proxies/repos/agents).

Thanks!

[JPMS]

I'm a bit unclear about your question.

Are you asking about the installation packages being reinstalled, which I would expect and isn't an issue for me?

Or are you talking about the software being reinstalled, which to me, makes no sense because if it has been uninstalled by me (because it isn't required) and it is a minor update (as opposed to a major version update), why would the software need to be reinstalled? Because that is what is happening.

[PTide]

I am talking about necessary Veeam services that are installed onto Linux hosts that are managed by Veeam (infrastructure hosts such as repos and proxes, agent hosts).

One of those services is called Veeam Transport.
Another one is called Deployer (veeamdeploymentsvc).
There are also other components that are not mandatory but can be installed in certain cases (VAL for example).

So, what exactly happens in this case?

because if it has been uninstalled by me (because it isn't required) and it is a minor update (as opposed to a major version update), why would the software need to be reinstalled?

What kind of software are you talking about here?

Thanks!

[JPMS]

We may well be talking cross purposes here as our our site doesn't have any Linux hosts that are managed by Veeam.

As a specific example of what I am complaining about, a really simple update from 12.2 to 12.3 on a Hyper-V server. Just a dedicated Veeam server VM and the Hyper-V host. Repo is a NAS so not involved.

After the update, on the Veeam server, I have these extra programs that are not required (and, unless they were new features, had been removed before):
Veeam Plug-in for Enterprise Applications Redistibutable
Agent for Linux Redistributable
Agent for Mac Redistributable
Agent for Unix Redistributable
Veeam Threat Hunter
Veeam Backup vPowerNFS
VMwareVDDK
Microsoft Entra ID plug-in
oVirt KVM Plug-in
Promox Plug-in
Nutanix Plug-in
Azure Plug-in
Kasten Plug-in
Google Cloud Plug-in
AWS Plugin
MS Windows Desktop Runtime (required dependancy for an unwanted plug-in)
MS ASP .NET Core (required dependancy for an unwanted plug-in)
MS Edge Webview (required dependancy for an unwanted plug-in)

On the host, we get these added:
Veeam Threat Hunter
VMwareVDDK

Firstly, why doesn't the installation software add the simple option of what plug-ins you want installed (upgrade or new install)?! This would avoid 65% of the unwanted software being installed.

Secondly, why does the upgrade insist on installing upgrades to software I didn't have installed? We don't need Veeam Backup vPowerNFS and VMwareVDDK (we are Windows and Hyper-V only) so why keep reinstalling them at every upgrade, even though they weren't installed prior to the upgrade?

Thirdly, we now find that if we remove some software we don't need, like Agent for Linux Redistributable and Agent for Unix Redistributable, it just gets reinstalled when we make changes to protection groups, even though there are no Linux or Unix agents.

I can understand installing software for a new feature like Threat Hunter (even if we aren't going to use it) but all this software just has to be uninstalled again.

[PTide]

Thirdly, we now find that if we remove some software we don't need, like Agent for Linux Redistributable and Agent for Unix Redistributable, it just gets reinstalled when we make changes to protection groups, even though there are no Linux or Unix agents.

Ok, so the problem is:

You had removed the Redistributables, but every time you touched the existing PGs (without any Linux/Unix machines) the VALRedist.msi would get reinstalled anew causing the redistros to come back.
You tried to remove the .msi, and VBR started to freak out.

You just want files and packages that you don't intend to use to be gone from VBR server.

Correct?

As for this:

After the update, on the Veeam server, I have these extra programs that are not required (and, unless they were new features, had been removed before)

I guess we need @Egor Yakovlev here as this has to be addressed to address this in our Setup Wizard.

Thanks!

[Egor Yakovlev]

Noted.
We already have some ideas to improve the installation and upgrade experience, focusing on installable count and the logic to choose them. I am tracking such feedback with utmost care.

[JPMS]

Yes, that's a pretty good summary @PTide and it's good to see you are looking at this @Egor Yakovlev.

I don't spend a lot of time on the forum but even with my limited contact, I have seen several other people complain at the amount of 'bloatware' that Veeam installs. I appreciate making sure the installation installs everything that is needed is not the easiest thing to achieve when people use the software in so many different environments but it is worth investing some resources in this because there must be many tens of thousands of man hours wasted across all the installations, having to clean up with every single update.

As I said before, just a simple install/upgrade check box option for plug-ins (of which there are so many now) would made a big difference and be comparatively simple to implement.