Host-based backup of VMware vSphere VMs.
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nreutemann
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Which option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

This is my situation today:

1 Physical server whit w2008 R2 + Veeam B&R 6.0.0.181, direct connected via FC to SAN.
4 VM Veeam Proxy whit w2008 R2 (hot add enabled, transport mode "virtual appliance")
4 LUNs at SAN to store backup data

The question is, wich configuration offer better performance?

a) Backup repositories as drives of the physical server, connected to the LUNs of the SAN?

or

b) Backup repositories as local drives of the backup proxys? (one for each proxy)

I read a lot, including the F.A.Q., but i´m not sure which of thid two alternatives is better.
What do you think about?

Thanks in andvance and sorry for my poor english.

Nicolas.
foggy
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by foggy »

nreutemann wrote:1 Physical server whit w2008 R2 + Veeam B&R 6.0.0.181, direct connected via FC to SAN.
4 LUNs at SAN to store backup data
Are we talking about the same device here? Please note that backing up to the same device where the actual VMs data is stored is not considered a good practice.

From the performance perspective, there should not be a noticeable difference. The second option is easier to configure and allows for data saved locally in VMDK, while with the first approach you can use the physical proxy with direct SAN access, which generally can be a bit faster than hotadd, so the backup performance should be comparable.
nreutemann
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

foggy wrote: Are we talking about the same device here? Please note that backing up to the same device where the actual VMs data is stored is not considered a good practice.

From the performance perspective, there should not be a noticeable difference. The second option is easier to configure and allows for data saved locally in VMDK, while with the first approach you can use the physical proxy with direct SAN access, which generally can be a bit faster than hotadd, so the backup performance should be comparable.
Yes, is the same device. But, my SAN is a FC SAN, with 2 x IBM DS3400. I got 4 LUNs to store backups files, 2 on each storage and located on separated RAIDs.
I take backups of VMs located on storage A and store it on storage B and visceversa. And, when the backup job finish, the files are saved to tape.

So, the best option is to configure the 4 repositories on the physical server, no?
foggy
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by foggy »

Yes, I would go with this option to avoid storing backup files on VMFS volumes.
nreutemann
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

foggy wrote:Yes, I would go with this option to avoid storing backup files on VMFS volumes.
Right, but I was thinking on RDM no VMFS.
I made probes to access (not simultaneously) to an RDM LUN from a VM and the physical server. I tried to copy data to the LUN from de VM and after that, refresh the "disk managment" on the other side, re-map de disk and the data copied is available to de physical server. I tried this on both directions and works.

Anyway, I will follow your advice (for performance reasons, thats the only thing that matters here).

Thanks.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by Gostev »

Yes, RDM in physical mode makes a perfect backup target.
nreutemann
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

Gostev wrote:Yes, RDM in physical mode makes a perfect backup target.
Thanks Gostev, that`s my idea. But if the performance remains similar, I will prefer attach the LUNs to the physical server to simplify the schema.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by rbrambley »

I think Foggy's point is to not keep your backups on your production SAN. If you lose the SAN you've lost your production VMs and backups. RDM or VMFS. Make sure you have an archive copy somewhere else at least. That way Veeam can do instant restores, etc.
nreutemann
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

rbrambley wrote:I think Foggy's point is to not keep your backups on your production SAN. If you lose the SAN you've lost your production VMs and backups. RDM or VMFS. Make sure you have an archive copy somewhere else at least. That way Veeam can do instant restores, etc.
Yes, all backup´s files are copied to tape after job´s end.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by Gostev »

nreutemann wrote:Thanks Gostev, that`s my idea. But if the performance remains similar, I will prefer attach the LUNs to the physical server to simplify the schema.
The performance should be identical, I see no reason why it will be different.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

Gostev wrote: The performance should be identical, I see no reason why it will be different.
I was thiking if I hot-add the disc to the proxy and backup the data to the LUN is more efficient than send the data to de physical server and there copy it to the repository.
Maybe I´m not completely understood the "data movement" in the two scenarios.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by Gostev »

Sorry, I assumed that physical server will also be used as the backup proxy connected directly into SAN fabric to enable directs SAN access mode processing (since this is pretty much the only reason why people use physical servers with Veeam). And when proxy and repository are on the same server, there is no data movement over the network.
nreutemann
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by nreutemann »

Gostev wrote:Sorry, I assumed that physical server will also be used as the backup proxy connected directly into SAN fabric to enable directs SAN access mode processing (since this is pretty much the only reason why people use physical servers with Veeam). And when proxy and repository are on the same server, there is no data movement over the network.
My infrastructure is this:

1 physical server (IBM x3650 M2 with direct access to SAN via FC) with w2008 R2 + Veeam B&R 6
4 VMs as veeam proxys
The SAN has 2 x IBM DS3400

I made some test and, from my point of view, this configuration performs better than without proxys.

At this moment, the backup repositories are configured at physical server.

Looking to improve performance, born in my head the idea of attach the repositories directly to the proxy instead the physical server. That´s the reason of the born of this thread.
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Re: Wich option is better for performance?

Post by Gostev »

Makes perfect sense.
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