architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for tape

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architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for tape

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:34 pm

We have a environment with Veeam 8.0 Backup & Replication

Our intention in this environment is to have an actual full backup every day on tape.
We are going with a one time full backup and "forever incremental" backup to the repository, and from there we want to make a "Virtual Synthesized Full Backup to tape" from the full backup file and the following incremental backup files
For this, an co-worker of your company told us to put the settings as followed, mainly to REMOVE EXPLICITLY the “process incremental backup files” setting in the tape job. In the schedule area of the media pool/full backup section, we've selected already the days, which should be the option, when he makes this virtual synthesized full backup:

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The result is, after he made in the main "backup to the repository" job, a successfull incremental backup, even if he merged because of the retention policy the OLDEST incremental backup file into the full backup file, as you can see on the screenshot: The Tape job doesn't recognize there is new data.

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Any ideas??
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:29 am

Nice one, we've got exactly the same problem... "No new files to backup per job setting".
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:40 am

Guys, in order to enable synthesized backup, you need to enable processing of incremental files in the tape job.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:07 pm

As far I understand the "Veeam_backup_8_userguide_vmware.pdf, pages 695+696 (pdf page), you don't have to check this box:
"You can schedule creating a synthetic full backup. The synthetic full backup file is created directly on tape and requires no disk space. To schedule the synthetic full, click Schedule and select the necessary scheduling options."

This is the Schedule box beside the "Media pool for full backups" section in the tape job, I've put also in my screenshots!

Because when we check the "Proces incremental backup files", even we have enabled the days in the schedule box above, he stores us ALL incremental backup files on a tape, and doesn't make any kind of synthesized backup.
By the way a Veeam engineer which was helping us with presales support, was also telling us, that the checkbox "process incremental backup files" has NOT to be checked in order to process a "Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for tape"
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby Dima P. » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:58 pm

Wolfgang,

I am sorry for the misunderstanding – the feature of the synthesized full backup to tape is a brand new (it was just released in v8) and it might be confusing. “Process incremental backup files” should be additionally checked in order to trigger the synthesized full creation in the current version. However, we are aware that users would like to have synthesized full back up without incremental backups processing, so we are currently working with the dev team to make it happen.

Once again I am sorry for any confusion caused, I will send a follow up to tech support team and tech writers team to update their internal and external docs – thank you for pointing this out.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:00 pm

I'm currently running a job with "processing incremental files" and can confirm that much more data is written to tape. The job hasn't completed yet, only 4%, but has already written 130GB to tape. Normally one tape backup uses about 800GB... It seems that there is much more done than wbauer84 and me expected
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:02 pm

d.popov wrote:Wolfgang,

I am sorry for the misunderstanding – the feature of the synthesized full backup to tape is a brand new (it was just released in v8) and it might be confusing. “Process incremental backup files” should be additionally checked in order to trigger the synthesized full creation in the current version. However, we are aware that users would like to have synthesized full back up without incremental backups processing, so we are currently working with the dev team to make it happen.

Once again I am sorry for any confusion caused, I will send a follow up to tech support team and tech writers team to update their internal and external docs – thank you for pointing this out.



That said we have to continue using reversed incremental in the source backup job to only write a daily full backup to tape?
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:26 pm

hoFFy wrote:That said we have to continue using reversed incremental in the source backup job to only write a daily full backup to tape?

Yes, in case of reverse incremental job, only VBK is copied to tape during each job run.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:31 pm

foggy wrote:
hoFFy wrote:That said we have to continue using reversed incremental in the source backup job to only write a daily full backup to tape?

Yes, in case of reverse incremental job, only VBK is copied to tape during each job run.



Of course, that has been the typical way to create a daily full backup to tape. I (we) thought, that it's possible with v8 to write daily full backups to tape without using the slower reversed incremental in the source backup job.
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:36 pm

My response could sound a bit confusing. Actually, you can use either of the methods, in both cases (incremental forever with synthesized tape backup or reverse incremental) just a single full is copied to tape. The fact that you enable processing of increments doesn't mean that increments themselves will be copied to tape (in fact, increment will be copied if the day it is created on is not selected in the synthesized backup schedule).
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby hoFFy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:43 pm

Okay now I understand what you mean :)

The amount of data written to tape is in both cases the same, right?
Which files does Veeam read in order to create a synthesized backup to tape? All files from incremental forever? If thats the case, creation of a synthesized backup will take longer if there are many restore points, right?
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby foggy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:05 pm

hoFFy wrote:The amount of data written to tape is in both cases the same, right?

Right.

hoFFy wrote:Which files does Veeam read in order to create a synthesized backup to tape? All files from incremental forever?

Those files that contain data blocks that are required to synthesize a full backup.

hoFFy wrote:If thats the case, creation of a synthesized backup will take longer if there are many restore points, right?

In fact, the difference should be almost unnoticeable (unless you're copying from a dedupe storage).
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:49 pm

Hi foggy,

Well, we re-checked the option "process incremental backup files" and it seems now, that he processes the incremental files now in the synthesized vbk file on tape.

But it seems, that he still has a weird behaviour:

In both environments we make forever incremental backups to disk repository every 3 hours.
When now the tape job, belonging to this forever incremental job starts, and in the meanwhile another time the incremental job ran, he wants to backup in the running tape job again a full vbk file, and tells in the job: "Changes in source storage detected. Scan for changes"
That leads to, that in environments with tape libraries, he takes one tape after the other (eating that much cannot be healthy), and in the environments with a single tape drive, he doesn't finish the job, and wants another tape :(

Can you STOP this behaviour, that he just backup to tape ONCE and not scanning for changes again, when he backupped already a full vbk with synthesized vbi's?
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby wbauer84 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:19 pm

Hi foggy again!

Now I was checking the jobs again,

In one job, where the settings are the same as in my screenshot, additionally everywhere of course "process incremental backup files" checked now, he was backing up two vbk-Files and one vbi-Files on ONE tape, where is in the repository just one vbk file and of course many following vbi files.
Then I wasn't really sure about what was happening, so I started in this job again a incremental following up backup job, let him finish, and startet then the corresponding tape job again.
Normally he should write FULL SYNTHESIZED VBK with the state of the last VBI-File to EVERY TAPE JOB, right?
This time for example he was just processing the LAST VBI-File (and JUST the vbi file to tape, so NO synthesizing), and the ejected the tape again.

Somehow really this function doesn't seem to work as well, as it should...
Or can you explain me this behaviour?
By the way, we were recreating the Backup to repository disk jobs 2 days ago completely new from scratch, that we have a fresh and clean VBK/VBI line, so were not talking about long time ago created jobs....
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Re: architecture with Virtual Synthesized Full Backup for ta

Veeam Logoby v.Eremin » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:58 am

What schedule does a backup to tape job has? Is it "as new backup files appear" or "after this job" by any chance? Thanks.
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