Discussions specific to tape backups
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wa15
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U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by wa15 » Jan 10, 2019 9:19 pm

Been testing B&R U4 and I had a couple of feature related questions. I realize these will be answered once the product goes GA, but who can wait! :)

1. I see that I can add an NDMP NAS server. Once added, I have the option of backing up tape directly. Is this the long-awaited "NAS file share backup" feature that was noted a couple years back for V10? Is this feature designed to back up many TBs of data to tape? Can it also index data?

2. Regarding the SOBR archive tier feature with S3 storage: from a Veeam standpoint, is there any reason this feature couldn't be used to replace tapes for the purpose of long-term (e.g. 7 years) archival? I remember that this was being touted as a "tape replacement" feature back many months ago so I want to make sure that that's still a use case.

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by Gostev » Jan 10, 2019 10:31 pm

Hello!

1. NDMP to Tape is strictly volume level NAS backup and restore functionality, nothing more than that. This is separate from scalable file-level backup functionality to disk (including, but not limited to NAS file shares as a source) that is scheduled to be shipped in the next update. We found that larger customers want both, they consider NDMP to Tape dumps as the "last resort" backup for when everything else fails.

2. No reasons from Veeam standpoint. As long as you can afford it (as some leading object storage providers are by an order of magnitude more expensive than tape), then this functionality can certainly be a tape replacement for long-term data archival use case.

Thanks!

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by wa15 » Jan 10, 2019 10:40 pm

Great to know, thanks for the info!

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by sraj » Jan 11, 2019 7:29 pm

wa15 - let me know if there is any specific instructions to be followed for adding the NDMP Server or any syntax format for specific credentials

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by wa15 » Jan 12, 2019 1:00 am

@ sraj - no specific instructions or format for the credentials. Simply following the wizard and entering the creds of a local admin account on the filer did the trick for us.

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by Dima P. » Jan 14, 2019 4:42 pm

sraj wrote:
Jan 11, 2019 7:29 pm
if there is any specific instructions to be followed for adding the NDMP Server or any syntax format for specific credentials
wa15 is correct. In order to add NDMP server to the Veeam B&R console you should go to Add NDMP server wizard and type is the access credentials and IP or host name of your NDMP compatible device. Once done, you can create File to tape jobs with NDMP volumes as a source. Cheers!

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by sraj » Jan 15, 2019 1:52 am 1 person likes this post

i used the below steps to add it..

Create an ndmp user account for the vserver. This step is optional as you may use the vserver 'vsadmin' account if you wish.
cluster::> security login create -user-or-group-name ndmpuser -application ssh -authmethod password -vserver <SVM-name> -role vsadmin-backup

Please enter a password for user 'ndmpuser':
Please enter it again:

Generate an ndmp password for the user account. Note: This password will not be the same as the password for the user account.
cluster::> vserver services ndmp generate-password -vserver <SVM-name> -user ndmpuser

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by andyman3000 » Jan 22, 2019 9:24 pm

Gostev wrote:
Jan 10, 2019 10:31 pm
Hello!

1. NDMP to Tape is strictly volume level NAS backup and restore functionality, nothing more than that. This is separate from scalable file-level backup functionality to disk (including, but not limited to NAS file shares as a source) that is scheduled to be shipped in the next update. We found that larger customers want both, they consider NDMP to Tape dumps as the "last resort" backup for when everything else fails.

2. No reasons from Veeam standpoint. As long as you can afford it (as some leading object storage providers are by an order of magnitude more expensive than tape), then this functionality can certainly be a tape replacement for long-term data archival use case.

Thanks!
Afternoon Gostev!

Will NDMP to Tape ever have a file system index/file versioning to restore an individual file via NDMP? Or is what you are saying here is that file-level backup functionality to disk will only be released on the next update (Perhaps similar to how file-to-tape works except to disk? Or Will NAS backups generate a browseable/indexable .VBK? )

We use NetApp as Filers and most file restores are covered by Previous Versions / Snap History policy (Right Click -> Properties --> Previous Versions). But when users need to go back further than the snapshot policy that is on NetApp, or for Legal Holds, we still depend on emc Networker for the NDMP client backup directly to tape which we are able to restore single files or folders via the NDMP protocol at the volume level. We also have specific application volumes that have the Snapshot policies disabled because the backups\retention policies are covered by the Networker.

In addition to all of that our NetApps are also media servers which control tape libraries over FC which bypass the production network, so I am a little worried if we switch to Veeam NDMP to tape we will be required to pull all of this data over the network to a Windows Tape server. And in the case with the coming NAS to Disk backups, targeting the paths via the \\nas\share (instead of /ndmp/volume) we would be potentially backing up terabytes & millions of files and am wondering how the file system would be indexed and how performance would be impacted on our existing topologies.

Am looking forward to someday being able to get rid of some of our legacy backup workloads! :)

Thanks for any information in advance

-Andy

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by Gostev » Jan 22, 2019 9:49 pm

andyman3000 wrote:
Jan 22, 2019 9:24 pm
Will NDMP to Tape ever have a file system index/file versioning to restore an individual file via NDMP?
This is not currently planned.
andyman3000 wrote:
Jan 22, 2019 9:24 pm
Or is what you are saying here is that file-level backup functionality to disk will only be released on the next update (Perhaps similar to how file-to-tape works except to disk?
Correct.
andyman3000 wrote:
Jan 22, 2019 9:24 pm
Or Will NAS backups generate a browseable/indexable .VBK? )
Correct.

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by tom.schmidt » Jan 29, 2019 1:55 pm 1 person likes this post

Hi Gostev,
exactly the feature we need, only problem is that enterprise + is mandatory. This really sucks. I am not going to update all my 28 B&R standard core licenses (~14k€), because none of the other features is needed. How does Veeam define "location"? Am I allowed to buy a single enterprise + license for use only in our offsite backup location with no access to production data / VMware environment only hosting our snapvault secondary filer that only holds mirrored NAS shares?

Thanks
Thomas

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by Samba222 » Feb 01, 2019 2:27 pm 1 person likes this post

We are also really, really disappointed that this "poor" NDMP feature is now only a Enterprise+ feature. And poor means that this is a simple NDMP to Tape Feature, Volume based, without FLR :-( .... (every EMC and Commvault admin laughs about that)... therefore we need to upgrade to E+ ?? For me this sounds like a joke. Waiting for years, feature requests more and more, and now a tiny implementation and u have to upgrade... come on it breaks my heart in the great love of veeam :-/

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by Dima P. » Feb 05, 2019 11:48 pm 1 person likes this post

@Samba222 that's the first version of NDMP support in our product and for sure we will keep an eye on all incoming feedback to provide the improvements in next versions.
therefore we need to upgrade to E+ ??
Well, NDMP support is not the only feature in Enterprise Plus? You are to decide whether all those features worth the upgrade or not. Besides, we keep providing File to Tape backups from file share in all editions as before, which even provides FLR and has been vastly improved in Update 4 anyway.

@Thomas
I believe for offsite you can license different from your production one. Please check with local sales team, they should have the details and can advise better.

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Re: U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

Post by mer » Feb 14, 2019 3:14 pm

sraj wrote:
Jan 15, 2019 1:52 am
i used the below steps to add it..

Create an ndmp user account for the vserver. This step is optional as you may use the vserver 'vsadmin' account if you wish.
cluster::> security login create -user-or-group-name ndmpuser -application ssh -authmethod password -vserver <SVM-name> -role vsadmin-backup

Please enter a password for user 'ndmpuser':
Please enter it again:

Generate an ndmp password for the user account. Note: This password will not be the same as the password for the user account.
cluster::> vserver services ndmp generate-password -vserver <SVM-name> -user ndmpuser
Thank you for the steps sraj.
So according to the Netapp documentation you went with the SVM scoped NDMP config. is that correct ? I don't need to enable NDMP on other SVM's that are specific to NAS protocols ? I have an SVM that is only running CIFS and the volumes that contain these shares are the ones I want to backup to tape.

Also from the Veeam setup, I think what I'm seeing here is to use the newly created admin account (ndmpuser in your example) in the step where we add the NDMP server and admin credentials . Is that correct ? What is the the purpose of the generated password ?

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