U4 Feature Questions: NDMP Backup To Tape?

[wa15]

Been testing B&R U4 and I had a couple of feature related questions. I realize these will be answered once the product goes GA, but who can wait!

1. I see that I can add an NDMP NAS server. Once added, I have the option of backing up tape directly. Is this the long-awaited "NAS file share backup" feature that was noted a couple years back for V10? Is this feature designed to back up many TBs of data to tape? Can it also index data?

2. Regarding the SOBR archive tier feature with S3 storage: from a Veeam standpoint, is there any reason this feature couldn't be used to replace tapes for the purpose of long-term (e.g. 7 years) archival? I remember that this was being touted as a "tape replacement" feature back many months ago so I want to make sure that that's still a use case.

[Gostev]

Hello!

1. NDMP to Tape is strictly volume level NAS backup and restore functionality, nothing more than that. This is separate from scalable file-level backup functionality to disk (including, but not limited to NAS file shares as a source) that is scheduled to be shipped in the next update. We found that larger customers want both, they consider NDMP to Tape dumps as the "last resort" backup for when everything else fails.

2. No reasons from Veeam standpoint. As long as you can afford it (as some leading object storage providers are by an order of magnitude more expensive than tape), then this functionality can certainly be a tape replacement for long-term data archival use case.

Thanks!

[wa15]

Great to know, thanks for the info!

[sraj]

wa15 - let me know if there is any specific instructions to be followed for adding the NDMP Server or any syntax format for specific credentials

[wa15]

@ sraj - no specific instructions or format for the credentials. Simply following the wizard and entering the creds of a local admin account on the filer did the trick for us.

[Dima P.]

if there is any specific instructions to be followed for adding the NDMP Server or any syntax format for specific credentials

wa15 is correct. In order to add NDMP server to the Veeam B&R console you should go to Add NDMP server wizard and type is the access credentials and IP or host name of your NDMP compatible device. Once done, you can create File to tape jobs with NDMP volumes as a source. Cheers!

[sraj]

i used the below steps to add it..

Create an ndmp user account for the vserver. This step is optional as you may use the vserver 'vsadmin' account if you wish.
cluster::> security login create -user-or-group-name ndmpuser -application ssh -authmethod password -vserver <SVM-name> -role vsadmin-backup

Please enter a password for user 'ndmpuser':
Please enter it again:

Generate an ndmp password for the user account. Note: This password will not be the same as the password for the user account.
cluster::> vserver services ndmp generate-password -vserver <SVM-name> -user ndmpuser

[andyman3000]

Hello!

1. NDMP to Tape is strictly volume level NAS backup and restore functionality, nothing more than that. This is separate from scalable file-level backup functionality to disk (including, but not limited to NAS file shares as a source) that is scheduled to be shipped in the next update. We found that larger customers want both, they consider NDMP to Tape dumps as the "last resort" backup for when everything else fails.

2. No reasons from Veeam standpoint. As long as you can afford it (as some leading object storage providers are by an order of magnitude more expensive than tape), then this functionality can certainly be a tape replacement for long-term data archival use case.

Thanks!

Afternoon Gostev!

Will NDMP to Tape ever have a file system index/file versioning to restore an individual file via NDMP? Or is what you are saying here is that file-level backup functionality to disk will only be released on the next update (Perhaps similar to how file-to-tape works except to disk? Or Will NAS backups generate a browseable/indexable .VBK? )

We use NetApp as Filers and most file restores are covered by Previous Versions / Snap History policy (Right Click -> Properties --> Previous Versions). But when users need to go back further than the snapshot policy that is on NetApp, or for Legal Holds, we still depend on emc Networker for the NDMP client backup directly to tape which we are able to restore single files or folders via the NDMP protocol at the volume level. We also have specific application volumes that have the Snapshot policies disabled because the backups\retention policies are covered by the Networker.

In addition to all of that our NetApps are also media servers which control tape libraries over FC which bypass the production network, so I am a little worried if we switch to Veeam NDMP to tape we will be required to pull all of this data over the network to a Windows Tape server. And in the case with the coming NAS to Disk backups, targeting the paths via the \\nas\share (instead of /ndmp/volume) we would be potentially backing up terabytes & millions of files and am wondering how the file system would be indexed and how performance would be impacted on our existing topologies.

Am looking forward to someday being able to get rid of some of our legacy backup workloads!

Thanks for any information in advance

-Andy

[Gostev]

Will NDMP to Tape ever have a file system index/file versioning to restore an individual file via NDMP?

This is not currently planned.

Or is what you are saying here is that file-level backup functionality to disk will only be released on the next update (Perhaps similar to how file-to-tape works except to disk?

Correct.

Or Will NAS backups generate a browseable/indexable .VBK? )

Correct.

[tom.schmidt]

Hi Gostev,
exactly the feature we need, only problem is that enterprise + is mandatory. This really sucks. I am not going to update all my 28 B&R standard core licenses (~14k€), because none of the other features is needed. How does Veeam define "location"? Am I allowed to buy a single enterprise + license for use only in our offsite backup location with no access to production data / VMware environment only hosting our snapvault secondary filer that only holds mirrored NAS shares?

Thanks
Thomas

[Samba222]

We are also really, really disappointed that this "poor" NDMP feature is now only a Enterprise+ feature. And poor means that this is a simple NDMP to Tape Feature, Volume based, without FLR .... (every EMC and Commvault admin laughs about that)... therefore we need to upgrade to E+ ?? For me this sounds like a joke. Waiting for years, feature requests more and more, and now a tiny implementation and u have to upgrade... come on it breaks my heart in the great love of veeam :-/

[Dima P.]

@Samba222 that's the first version of NDMP support in our product and for sure we will keep an eye on all incoming feedback to provide the improvements in next versions.

therefore we need to upgrade to E+ ??

Well, NDMP support is not the only feature in Enterprise Plus? You are to decide whether all those features worth the upgrade or not. Besides, we keep providing File to Tape backups from file share in all editions as before, which even provides FLR and has been vastly improved in Update 4 anyway.

@Thomas
I believe for offsite you can license different from your production one. Please check with local sales team, they should have the details and can advise better.

[mer]

i used the below steps to add it..

Create an ndmp user account for the vserver. This step is optional as you may use the vserver 'vsadmin' account if you wish.
cluster::> security login create -user-or-group-name ndmpuser -application ssh -authmethod password -vserver <SVM-name> -role vsadmin-backup

Please enter a password for user 'ndmpuser':
Please enter it again:

Generate an ndmp password for the user account. Note: This password will not be the same as the password for the user account.
cluster::> vserver services ndmp generate-password -vserver <SVM-name> -user ndmpuser

Thank you for the steps sraj.
So according to the Netapp documentation you went with the SVM scoped NDMP config. is that correct ? I don't need to enable NDMP on other SVM's that are specific to NAS protocols ? I have an SVM that is only running CIFS and the volumes that contain these shares are the ones I want to backup to tape.

Also from the Veeam setup, I think what I'm seeing here is to use the newly created admin account (ndmpuser in your example) in the step where we add the NDMP server and admin credentials . Is that correct ? What is the the purpose of the generated password ?

[andyman3000]

Can I request features here or should this be in a separate thread?

1.) Allow Veeam to control NetApp nodes as a media\tape server. EMC Networker allows me to add the NDMP clients, and we can scan\add FC attached tape libraries. Then schedule backups as NDMP dump to its attached tape drives
2.) Allow Veeam to index the NetApp file volumes (possibly even using NetApp disk space for local index). I don't think I can move my NetApp workloads off of Networker until Veeam can efficiently archive NetApp files to tape. We have forever incrementals to tape and & Legal holds in place with Networker backing up Netapp. Would be nice if Veeam could do this and have integration in Enterprise Manager guest file indexing. Backing up to disk with NFS backup ability coming soon will require a lot of redundant drive space before we can take it to tape with backup to tape.

[parisv-tlc]

Yeah this is what is stopping us from purchasing veeam. Our tape drive is connected to our netapps diretly over fibre. I'm able to add the netapps as ndmp servers but I can't add a tape library. Apparently a tape library has to be connected to a windows server?

[Dima P.]

Mark,

While tape device should be connected to the server with Tape Server role installed, it could be a server which owns gateway role for your storage. Will such workaround work for your environment? Thank you!

[Sloan]

Sort or resurrecting this thread to mention that V10 NDMP to tape still appears to function the same at 9.5u4b. Disappointed that NDMP has to run over the network instead of direct fiber to tape like implementations from networker, netbackup, etc. I have a bottleneck that is listed as "source" and I hit a total bandwith from a NetApp system with multiple nodes of about 115MB/sec whether I run 1 job that gets 115MB/sec or 2 jobs that each run at 57MB/sec. Thinking it may be an NDMP limitation but we're not sure yet. I have case 04111530 open to review any netapp interface settings that may be limiting performance.

[Dima P.]

Hello Sloan,

Thanks for bringing this up. I've asked RnD folks to review the case details.