Discussions specific to tape backups
PariPari
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by PariPari » Jan 16, 2017 2:20 pm

Did Update 1 solve your problem?
We are facing a similar issue, same config (backup, backup copy, to tape from copy).
Should be easy, seems like it isnt.

FloG
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by FloG » Jan 23, 2017 8:11 am

As far as I understood from Konstantin's posts this is a confirmed issue in all current versions/updates. So v9, v9 Update 1 (don't know about Update 2 but probably too) and v9.5 are all affected.

Until there's a fix for this the only workaround seems to be what Konstantin's last post suggested:
I didn't check it but it looks like creating couple separate jobs (mo-we-fr & tu-th-sa) is a valid workaround.
I'm planning to simply clone my daily tape job and change the scheduled days for these two jobs to MO-WE-FR and TU-TH. My weekly/monthly/yearly jobs that run on SA are not affected since they're separate jobs already (not using GFS jobs but a "manual" GFS rotation managed by a PowerShell script)

nathano
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Jan 23, 2017 11:45 am

I had setup two different tape jobs, one Mon&Wed and one Tue&Thur, there was already a different Friday job..

Not sure what's going on here but it's Monday night and the tape backup is backing up restore points from today (23rd) for local backup jobs and restore points from 22nd for the backup copy jobs! aarrgghh!!

no tape jobs run over the weekend..


the processing of the backup copy job finished at 7:07pm
and when you look at the files in the repository for the copy job, there's a vbk file timestamped at 23rd at 7:10pm

from the tape job
23/01/2017 8:30:07 PM :: Building source backup files list started at 23/01/2017 8:30:07 PM
23/01/2017 8:30:08 PM :: No restore point for 23/01/2017 is available for virtual full backup, using previous restore point for 22/01/2017
23/01/2017 8:30:08 PM :: Synthetic full backup from xxxxxxxxxx-SQL to NextD2017-01-22T190000.vib (23/01/2017 12:00:00 AM) will be placed into the media set

so there must be some other reason for it skipping the current restore point, and using the previous.

nathano
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Jan 23, 2017 11:58 am

I have just logged a new case (02046548) about this. It's quite important we have the latest restore points to tape each night!

FloG
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by FloG » Jan 23, 2017 2:02 pm

Hi Nathan,

to get the current restore point of the copy job written to the same tape(s) as the restore point(s) from the backup jobs of the same day I had to make sure the copy job's interval ends befor the tape job starts. In my opinion this is almost impossible with the default behavior of the backup copy jobs (at interval start -> copy most current restore points). I had to set the following registry key on the B&R server and reboot it:

Code: Select all

Path:  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Veeam\Veeam Backup and Replication
Key:   BackupCopyLookForward
Type:  REG_DWORD
Value: 1
This registry key changes the behavior of !!! ALL !!! copy jobs from "at interval start -> instantly start copying the latest restore points" to "at interval start -> wait for the next restore points to be created and then start copying them".

This way I was able to configure the following scenario (example for MO):
1.) Copy job to copy backups from remote site B to main site A starts SU at 11:30 pm with an interval of 1 day (due to the mentioned registry key the job sits idle after start)
2.) Backup jobs in remote site B start MO at 7 pm (running until about 8 pm)
3.) As soon as restore points are being created by the jobs from 2.) the copy job from 1.) starts copying them to main site A (running until about 10 pm)
4.) Backup jobs in main site A start MO at 8 pm (running until about 10 pm)
5.) Interval of copy job from 1.) ends MO at 11:30 pm thus its restore point is freed for further processing
6.) Tape job starts MO at 11:45 pm and writes restore points from 3.) and 4.) to tape

This setup works for me but clearly has its disadvantages:
- Changing the bahaviour of the copy jobs by using the registry key affects all copy jobs and you might need to rethink other parts of your backup plan
- The copy job interval runs from 11:30 pm to 11:30 pm but only has an effective backup window from about 7:30 pm (first backup jobs in remote site B finishes and gets copied) to 11:30 pm (interval ends). This might not be enough time to copy everything. Of course you could set the interval start/stop time to some other time but you'll also have to adjust the start time for the tape job accordingly to have it start AFTER the interval ends.
Personally, I wanted the tape job to start at the same day as the backup jobs (at 11:45 pm) so the media set name variables %date% and/or %dayofweek% reflects the day the actual backups were taken. If you don't mind the MO backups being on tapes that have "Tuesday" and/or tuesday's date in their media set name, you can of course push the start/stop time of the copy job and the start time of the tape job further into the next day.

I hope this helps at least a little bit and wasn't too complicated ... it's hard to explain in writing and not having english as your native language doesn't help either!? :wink:

nathano
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Jan 24, 2017 12:17 am

Thanks for that, makes sense...

my backups are remote site start at 6:00, 6:30 and 6:45 pm and I have them setup with the secondary storage target so it effectively triggers the copy job.

the backups take a matter of minutes to run and backup copy jobs have the latest restore points copied to the datacentre by about 7.30pm, the tape job starts at 8.30pm

on the schedule tab of the copy job I have it set to run any time (continuously) perhaps that is my problem. I will try defining time on the schedule tab so that it only runs from 6pm to 8pm and see how that goes. I don't like restricting the time on the copy job like that but if it gets it working for now then that's a good thing and I'll go from there.

I also have a reply from Veeam support and will work with them as well.. I just need to understand what the limitation is exactly so I can work around it and push Veeam to fix it :-)

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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by FloG » Jan 24, 2017 7:51 am

I don't think that the restriction of time slots on the Schedule tab will make any difference. The settings there are only to e.g. prevent the copy job from copying data during production hours. The important settings in regards to whether the copied restore points are free for tape writing is the interval and start time setting on the Job tab.

My copy job for example is configured to run every 1 day starting at 11:30 pm even if the backup jobs don't start before 7 pm the next day. But by setting the start time of my 1 day interval to 11:30 pm I can make sure that the current interval (that for example started on SU 11:30 pm) that copied my restore points from the backup jobs that started at MO 7 pm ends on MO 11:30 pm before my tape job starts at MO 11:45 pm. This way at MO 11:45 pm the copy job has already started a new copy interval and waits for new restore points to be copied and thus keeps his fingers off the restore points from MO 7 pm when they're written to tape.

But as mentioned before, this only works because I set the registry key to change the copy jobs behavior to copy the NEXT restore point that is created within it's interval instead of copying the MOST CURRENT one that already exists. I'm not sure how this would work with the default copy job behavior.

In my opinion the whole backup copy job thing is far from perfect but most of the time you can push it to accomplish what you want it to :) And I guess the Veeam guys will figure something out that fits your needs.

nathano
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Jan 24, 2017 10:59 am

you're right, the scheduling made no difference!

I understand what you are saying with that regedit change. I will read it again when I'm not tired and make sure I really understand the implications of doing that and also see what the Veeam Support guys have to say.

With the split tape jobs (mon/wed and tue/thu) there should be no problem starting my tape job later and having it run past midnight so I can make sure there's plenty of time buffer with my settings...

BUT - I would have thought that it would "just work" as most Veeam stuff does :-)

FloG
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by FloG » Jan 24, 2017 11:23 am

Yeah, you're right ... to me it seems a bit like backup copy jobs never work the way you would want/need them to and you always have to tweak everything around it to make the whole thing work somehow!?

I guess I'll just gather all the points that I don't understand/would like to work differently and post a feature/enhancement request when I have the time ...

FloG
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by FloG » May 05, 2017 11:14 am

Are there any news regarding a solution (not a workaround) for this problem ? Will this maybe be fixed in v9.5 Update 2 ?

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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by stoal76 » Feb 25, 2019 4:18 am

Hi guys, we are still experiencing problem 2, where Copy jobs that contains a full backup are not going to tape and we are running 9.5 update 3a.

My case number is 03409945

Can anyone confirm if this problem has been fixed? or if the work around discussed above resolves it by setting up a separate backup job for each day?

It seems to be very random as to when the tape backup sees a full even though my main jobs are set to Synthetic full every day minus the one day where we do an Active full.

I have two copy jobs that go to the same tape job and one can see a full and the other can't and it rotates, sometimes they both see a full other times either one doesn't.

I have noticed that the days it does backup the full it is from the previous day's full which is fine.
23/02/2019 11:30:13 p.m. :: No restore point for 23/02/2019 is available for virtual full backup, using previous restore point for 22/02/2019

But then days it doesn't backup the full it doesn't look like it is dropping back to the previous days full even though I have confirmed there is one.
23/02/2019 11:30:13 p.m. :: Synthesized full backup was not created for 23/02/2019: there are no new restore points between 23/02/2019 and 23/02/2019

Any help would be appreciated

nathano
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Feb 27, 2019 4:54 am

I've just noticed the problem is happening again for me, just checking to make sure I haven't changed anything.. has all been working previously.. very frustrating..

v.eremin
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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by v.eremin » Feb 27, 2019 4:25 pm

Might be worth installing Update 4 first (basically, that's the first step that will be recommended by our support team). Thanks!

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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by nathano » Feb 27, 2019 11:31 pm

I did u4 as soon as it was rtm.

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Re: v9 Problem - Daily Full to Tape with Copy Job as Source

Post by Dima P. » Feb 28, 2019 7:00 pm

Nathan,

If you confirm the said behavior with the latest Update 4 please open the support case (as we would need the debug logs anyway). Please do not forget to share the case ID with us. Thanks!

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